Washington — A report stating that Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu had denounced two top aides to President Obama as “self-hating Jews” brought back less-than-fond memories to veteran Jewish officials from previous administrations — even as Netanyahu belatedly denied the latest alleged instance of this long tradition of targeting Jewish administration officials.
For Martin Indyk, former ambassador to Israel, it was the image of the late Cabinet minister Rehavam Zeevi calling him “Yehudon” — translated loosely to “Jew boy” — that came to mind.
“I told him that the last time someone called me that was in school,” said Indyk, who added that he had punched his tormenter in the face. Zeevi replied with a repetitive taunt: “Yehudon, yehudon.” This time it ended with no punching. Prodded by Israel’s chief rabbi, Zeevi later went up to Indyk and apologized.
For Jewish senior administration officials dealing with Israel, incidents of this sort are part of the folklore. Many carry scars from derogatory terms used against them in private and public whenever Washington and Jerusalem did not see eye to eye on issues of policy.
Obama senior advisers Rahm Emanuel and David Axelrod are now joining the club, although it is not clear if the insults, attributed to Netanyahu and his advisers, were actually voiced.
According to a July 9 story in Israel’s daily newspaper Haaretz, Netanyahu slung the hoary epithet at White House chief of staff Emanuel and at Axelrod, the president’s senior political adviser. The report argued that the two top aides, who are Jewish, are viewed by Jerusalem as the driving force behind Obama’s push to pressure Israel to freeze all settlement activity in the Israeli-occupied West Bank.
Weeks later, after the quote got picked up by major American and international news outlets, Netanyahu’s spokesman Mark Regev issued a statement denying that the Israeli prime minister had ever used that term.
White House officials said they did not feel a need to comment because the quotes had been officially denied.
But denials did little to quell the public discussion over Emanuel and Axelrod’s religious faith. Both have significant ties with their hometown Jewish community in Chicago, and both have spoken to Jewish activists throughout the campaign and since Obama took office. Emanuel and Axelrod were among the few advisers who attended Obama’s meeting with Jewish communal leaders in July.
Emanuel, who has been in government since the Clinton administration, has been more visible. The son of an immigrant from Israel who was active in the pre-state Irgun underground militia, Emanuel visited Israel frequently as a child and even volunteered as a civilian in an Israel Defense Forces workshop during the First Gulf War. Emanuel was also praised by Jewish groups for his consistent record of supporting Israel while in Congress.
Axelrod grew up in a New York middle-class Jewish family and has been active in his Jewish community in Chicago since moving there as a student. Although he is less known on the national Jewish scene, Jewish activists said he impressed them in all their encounters with his commitment to Israel.
“They both speak very proudly about being Jewish and about their commitment to Israel and belonging to the Jewish community,” said Alan Solow, chairman of the Conference of Presidents of Major American Jewish Organizations and a fellow Chicagoan. “I have no reason to believe that the support they had both expressed for Israel has diminished in any way.”
Rabbi Jack Moline of Alexandria, Va., who has given spiritual advice to Emanuel in the past, added, “I don’t know many who are more secure and proud of their faith than Rahm Emanuel.”
Even harsh critics of Obama’s approach to Israel are distancing themselves from the “self-hating Jew” allegation. “No one has the right to call them that,” said Morton Klein, national president of the Zionist Organization of America. Klein said they should have resigned their positions because of what he sees as “Obama’s racist policy” toward Israel, but he stressed that “if they believe this policy will work, it is not appropriate to call them self-hating Jews.”
Despite the overall rejection of using religion as a means of criticizing officials on policy issues, it has become an almost compulsory experience for Jewish administration officials dealing with Israel.
“The first time it happened, I was shocked and offended,” said Daniel Kurtzer, a former American ambassador to Israel. Kurtzer, an Orthodox Jew, got hit twice with the term “Jew boy” — once as part of former secretary of state James Baker’s Middle East team, alongside Dennis Ross and Aaron David Miller during the administration of George H.W. Bush, and once as ambassador. It was during his ambassadorship that Kurtzer was referred to as “that little Jew boy” by right-wing lawmaker Zvi Hendel from the Knesset podium.
“The reality is that it is more of a statement about the person saying it than on those who are being called it,” said Kurtzer, who is currently teaching a summer course in Israel.
For Martin Indyk, America’s first Jewish ambassador to Israel, there was also a sense of shock after his confrontation with Zeevi. But he said it was a “common attack” on America’s Jewish officials. “As a Jewish American in high office, it’s part of the hazard that comes with the job,” Indyk said.
“It is, to a great extent, inside Jewish baseball, so you shouldn’t take it too seriously,” former peace negotiator Miller added. He explained that “sometimes Jews don’t feel comfortable with Jews close to power.”
Miller, as well as other former Jewish officials, said that after being attacked by Israelis, he had no backing from Jewish leaders at home. “I never had the feeling the organized Jewish community is willing to stand up against these things,” he said.
Indyk noted it is ironic that Jewish administration officials face criticism for not backing Israel’s policy while at the same time having to deal with suspicion back in the United States that they are too pro-Israel for their diplomatic role.
For Dennis Ross, Obama’s special adviser and senior director of the National Security Council’s Central Region, this irony was demonstrated in a recentNew York Times Magazine article describing his new role in shaping policy toward Iran. The article suggested that Ross’s approach toward Iran could be biased by his long-standing support for Israel and by him being “too close to the American Jewish community.” The article was by Roger Cohen, a British Jew and longtime writer for the Times.
Contact Nathan Guttman at guttman@forward.com
The Forward welcomes reader comments in order to promote thoughtful discussion on issues of importance to the Jewish community. In the interest of maintaining a civil forum, the Forward requires that all commenters be appropriately respectful toward our writers, other commenters and the subjects of the articles. Vigorous debate and reasoned critique are welcome; name-calling and personal invective are not. While we generally do not seek to edit or actively moderate comments, the Forward reserves the right to remove comments for any reason.
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Right-wing Israelis are quickly heading to join the rubbish heap of history - like their neo-con buddies in the Bush gang.
One need not have voted for Obama, to see these Right-wing Israelis as spoiled brats, who are losing the propaganda war with Jewish-Americans. Obama has yet to do anything that should make Israelis so hateful. The settlement land grabs are illegal. The ultra-nationalist foreign minister is close to be indicted and will most likely end up in jail.
Israelis must give Obama a chance. The Arabs will not give up their goal of destroying Israel. Israel needs America to survive and succeed.
Netanyahu and the right-wing Israelis literally had the same advisors that Bush did, and they're leading Netanyahu in the same direction.
We're fortunate to have a president like Obama who are trying to save the Israelis from themselves. Obama has Jewish advisors who know that we have to draw the line.
What typical propaganda from the anti-Israel "Jewish" Forward! Iran is within months of having nuclear weapons with which to annihilate millions of Israeli Jews. Obama has proven himself to be the most anti-Israel American president in history. He is running out the clock on stopping Iran, intent on appeasing a new Hitler, and threatening Israel not to attempt to defend itself militarily from being incinerated. And the Forward defends Obama's strategists.
After lying to American Jews, upon entering office Obama immediately embarked on a policy of a barrage of public attacks on Israel, attempting to use the faux-issue of "settlements" to attempt to drive a wedge between American Jews and the Jewish State of Israel. (He even outrageously claims that Jerusalem is a "settlement".) He has engaged in an attempt to "divide and conquer" American Jews through intimidation and attempting to legitimize the most virulent "Jewish" far-left anti-Israel extremists, like George Soros' J Street, while trying to marginalize pro-Israel groups such as the Zionist Organization of America. He has fully endorsed the arab-muslim "narrative" concerning the history, origin, and legitimacy of the Jewish State of Israel. (This is all aside from renouncing every promise made to American Jews about being a friend to Israel, and that, "Jerusalem will remain the capital of Israel, and it must remain undivided", and pandering to muslims at the expense of American Jews - in his Inaugural Address, and blatantly in his Cairo speech.)
Obama's anti-Israel strategy towards Israel and American Jews has been reported to be the brainchild of Emanuel ,with the support of Axelrod. Obama was quoted as suggesting as much in his reported "meeting" with Emanuel's hand-picked Jewish groups - which included a small marginal extremist anti-Israel propagandist, J Street. In my opinion, "Jews" who act as blatant enemies the Jewish people obviously deserve to be shunned by the Jewish community, but more importantly to be condemned for their enmity. Whatever their motivations (personal power, parochial leftist extreme ideologies, Machiavellian machinations, self-hatred and/or utter lack of concern for Jews, misguided loyalties, self-delusion, and/or ignorance) the disastrous result is the same.
Instead of publishing this piece of yellow journalism - this pro-Obama "story" with its inflammatory headline of "Jew Boy" - suggesting that the tormentors of Israel and American Jews are the "victims", where is the Forward's defense of Israel and its American Jewish supporters? Unfortunately, this "article" is typical for the far-left anti-Israel Forward, which routinely attacks Israel, is clearly intent on legitimizing the likes of J Street, and supports Obama's anti-Israel strategy.
As a purported "Jewish" publication, instead of going out of its way to defend Obama strategists with this red herring of a "story", why is the Forward not doing what all Jewish journals and leaders should be doing: Standing up to Obama in defense of Israel? Decrying the outrageous attacks on Israel? Criticizing Obama's betrayal of American support for Israel? Criticizing Obama's attempts to intimidate American Jews and drive a wedge between them and Israel? Criticizing Obama's attempts to marginalize pro-Israel American Jews, and legitimize virulent anti-Israel propagandists? Urging Jews to stand up for Israel?
With millions of Jews' lives are at stake, why is the "Jewish" Forward not calling on Obama to fulfill his campaign promise: that a nuclear Iran is an unacceptable "game changer" which he would prevent, and that if not otherwise prevented, his use of US military action would "remain on the table"? Can there be any more urgent issue for the world's Jews?
In my opinion, this story is consistent with the Forward being a fifth column against Jews in America. It routinely publish anti-Israel "stories", columns and editorials, and, like J Street, actively attempts to damage American Jewish and American government support for Israel.
Instead of rushing to the defense of Obama's strategists with this inflammatory yellow journalism, how about a "Jewish" publication standing up against Israel's enemies and for the Jewish people?
It sounds like the anti-Semitic Jews here are Netanyahu and Rehavam Zeevi.
Following the lead of the "ZEALOTS" in Israel and America will get Israel similar results as it got 2,000 years ago - the destruction of Jerusalem!
We lost 6 million in the Holocaust. We must not destroy the six million in Israel due to ZEALOTS and their half-baked thinking and actions!
The Iranian dictatorship wants to destroy Israel, but the Iranian election proves the Iranians are in a violent state of revolution. The Persian masses are not Jew-hating Arabs.
Obama should be given more time to see what he can do to alleviate the Iranian threat. Israeli Zealots must stop voicing hate - and be verbally attacked by Jewish-Americans when they do so.
The murder of Tel Aviv Gays last week demonstrates where these Zealot Crazies are heading. They are bad people and should be condemned!
new englander writes, "Right-wing Israelis are quickly heading to join the rubbish heap of history - like their neo-con buddies in the Bush gang."
Perhaps he should set aside his ideological presumptions and read a paper. Israeli voters repudiated the left in the most recent election, opting instead for a coalition of nationalist, right and religious. Obama lost the "left" first when he repudiated the Bush-Sharon understandings which the Congress itself in 2004 voted to affirm. His insistence that Israel was not to build even in the JEWISH Quarter of Jerusalem was rejected even by the left. And his Cairo speech, implying that Israel's being was a consequence of Western anti-Semitism leading to the Holocaust - which is what the Arab world has long claimed - is broadly rejected. It's no wonder only some 6% of Israeli Jews, according to one poll, consider Obama pro-Israel.In contrast, Netanyahu has played to Israel's evolving consensus, and has broad support.
Israelis gave Obama his chance. He's delivered nothing. The great suck-up to the Arab and Muslim world while putting demands only on Israel has only made them *more* intransigent, leading to the slew of "No"s from Abbas, from the Saudis, from the Arab League. And Iran is proceeding apace to nuclear status. One needn't suggest these "court Jews" are self-hating for backing the current policies, only that they are deluded.
do most israelis [possibly 'jews'] think: it is either a binat'l israel or a state for jews only, that wld be at least as large as what israel now de facto possesses?
a state for 'jews' only may not just depend on the 'goodwill' of US. Other lands, even christian ones wld have a say, because a 'jewish' state can be established only by expelling all pal'ns.
can anyone see another way? Perhaps, dayans: ye shall live like dogs... or leave!
how about delaying peace for another century or so? With many more 'settlements' and more palestinians with less water, arable land, needed lebensraum, etc? that cld work if west wld allow it? tnx
Hey, I thought last week in the Philologos column it was firmly established that the Zealots are kaput.
On a brighter note. now I know how to say "Kinky Friedman and the Texas Jewboys" in Hebrew.
Your statement "Roger Cohen, a British Jew" is curious. Does Roger Cohen define himself as Jewish? If so how does Roger Cohen define "Jewish"? Does he worry about existential threats to Jews? Does he worry about the continued existence of Israel as a country were Jews do not have to live at the dispensation and whim of the ruler and the surrounding populace, but as a right? Does he associate himself with any religious, cultural, or professional organizations which are "Jewish"? I suspect Roger Cohen meets non of these "tests" and is probably happy to call himself a British cultural icon 9at least in his own mind).
If Roger Cohen has a UK passport, and his mother is Jewish, he's a British Jew.
in connection to expulsion of people, one may note that neither US nor europe had approbated expulsion of bosniaks [muslims] from bosnia.
europe does not approve of expulsion of serbs from croatia. Three croat generals are now in hague standing trial for excessive bombardment of knin and possibly approving of some crimes against serbs and of their expulsion.
what is known is that there are still some serbs in that area. yet, probably excessive missiling of gaza is not even on the table let alone in courts. go figure?
I just saw this interesting editorial in Lemming News:
lemmingnews.com
August, 2009
LEMMINGS: OVER THE CLIFF!
There is no time to hesitate! We must now fulfill our right and religious mandate to extend the borders of our range to its God-given boundaries. Jump over the cliff! Now!
Pay no attention to the lies and propaganda of those marginal anti-lemming lemmings, who want to debate it. They are either fools, or liars, or playing into the hands of the foxes. They are blatant enemies of the lemming species, no better than the foxes!
Whatever their motivations (personal power, parochial leftist extreme ideologies, Machiavellian machinations, self-hatred and/or utter lack of concern for lemmings, misguided loyalties, self-delusion, and/or ignorance) the disastrous result is the same.
Our mortal enemies, the foxes, with their red fur and drooling jaws, are close behind us! They are everywhere, with their sharp white bone-crushing teeth! No doubt these left-wing so-called lemmings are in league with the foxes.
No less dangerous is the threat of starvation if we remain here. How can we continue to have our traditional litters of six puppies every generation, if we don't expand our range? To remain is suicide. The cliff gives us hope -- our only hope.
Off the cliff! Into the ocean!
Hilarious
Liberal-Left ideology is a chronic, for many terminal, delusional sickness which believes any conflict can be settled by 'rational' discussions accompanied by concessions from the perceived stronger party to the conflict. Of course, in terms of the Arab-Israeli conflict and the larger arena of Islamic conflict with the West, if they were able to free themselves from this delusion and acknowledge the historic religiously fueled muslim attitude towards all things non-muslim, they would realize the futility and error of their ways.
Huh, Frank,
What does any of what you typed have to do with Israel? So the Forward makes an article on right-wing Israeli Jews making, well anti-Semitic comments toward U.S. Jews and that's "anti-Israeli"? What is the article wrong about? What did they lie about to make it "anti-Israeli"? Are you this simple-minded on topics that don't involve Israel? I hope with all your blind love for Israel, that you actually live there.
I mean, it doesn't bother you that you make statements that are obviously not true like, "Obama has proven himself to be the most anti-Israel American president in history."?
"After lying to American Jews..." Huh? What did he lie to us about again?
"...attempting to use the faux-issue of "settlements" to attempt to drive a wedge between American Jews and the Jewish State of Israel." LOL. "faux-issue" really? You do realize that this has been an issue before Obama even got into politics. He just actually has the chutzpah to try to do something about it (though Bush the elder tried a little). You do realize that most U.S. Jews are against the settlements, don't you?
If you think that J Street and George Soros are "anti-Israel extremists", much less just "anti-Israeli", then what do you think of Hamas and H'zbollah??!?
"In my opinion, "Jews" who act as blatant enemies the Jewish people obviously deserve to be shunned by the Jewish community, but more importantly to be condemned for their enmity."
So you want us to shun the Heredi?!? I don't think censoring them would be the right reason. I mean, no true religious Jews can actually truly recognize Eretz Israel. You are aware of that? That's why it is so easy for so many of them to ignore and even fight the Israeli government and IDF (plus they need to get jobs).
So in the end it seems like you believe that if someone doesn't right a fluff peace about Israel, then they are anti-Semitic and/or anti-Israeli. That thought process doesn't bother you?
So you think it is wrong for a U.S. Jewish 'zine to actually represent U.S. Jews over Israeli Jews?!?
Let's try your thought process: I disagree with you, so you must be a self-hating Jew that hates the United States of American and - oh yeah - you racist against black people because you criticize Obama. I guess thinking simplistically like you is easy, go figure.
Meanwhile, as Frank is defending tough talk, here's what the Israelis are saying among themselves:
http://www.salon.com/wires/ap/world/2009/08/06/D99TILU81_ml_israel_us/index.html
Diplomat: Public clashes with US damaging Israel By MARK LAVIE Associated Press Writer
Aug 6th, 2009 | JERUSALEM -- A senior Israeli diplomat has warned that his government's confrontational attitude toward the Obama administration is seriously harming Israel's standing, according to a TV report broadcast Thursday.
The diplomat wrote an internal memo that was leaked to Israel's Channel 10 TV. It said that Israel's public clashes with Washington over the U.S. demand for a settlement construction freeze was causing "strategic damage to Israel."
Channel 10 identified the diplomat as Nadav Tamir, Israel's consul in Boston....
Rabbi Eliezer Melamed
'Our enemy's motivation must be understood.
War With the Arabs
The path ahead of us is not simple. We are in a state of war with the vast majority of Arab countries, with Islamic believers throughout the world supporting them. We are talking about tens of millions of enemies who are ready to It is easy to be enticed by the false prophets who promise peace. go to war against us at any moment, and hundreds of millions more who voice support for it.
In such a situation, it is easy to be enticed by the false prophets who promise peace. However, one who examines the circumstances with open eyes will understand that withdrawal and compromise will not bring an end to the Arabs' war against us; on the contrary, it will only increase it. In order to understand this, the source of our enemy's motivation must be understood.
Islam - A Religion of War It is no coincidence that the Arabs have succeeded in imposing the Islamic religion on many nations, to the point where presently there are approximately 1,400,000,000 people who are believers. The genetic code of Islam is directed towards a steadfast war to impose the religion of Mohammad on the entire world by means of the sword. And to achieve this goal, everything is legitimate. If they need to lie, they will lie. If they need to kill, they will kill - hundreds of thousands or even millions. It was not the enchanting beauty of the Islamic religion which drew so many nations to accept it upon themselves, but rather the clear threat of death.
All nations reached their achievements through wars and victories; however, in Islam, unlike other cultures, the principle of compromise is unacceptable, especially a compromise over land. Therefore, even when the Muslims lack the power to defeat their enemy, they are not willing to accept compromise. If they make a cease-fire (tahadeya in Arabic), in the view of Islam, it is only a recess which must be utilized to prepare for the continuation of the war. If possible, in the meantime, they will weaken their opponent with terrorist attacks and ransacking. If not, at the very least they will attempt to anesthetize him with lies, until they are able to attack once again and defeat him.
This fundamental principle causes the Muslims never to lay down their sword; to always be ready for the continuation of the war. This is how the Muslims succeeded to impose their religion on many nations, who in turn, according to this code, continued to conquer additional territory.
Territory Previously Conquered by Islam According to the Muslim way of thinking, the world is divided into two areas: Dar al-Islam is the area already conquered by Islam. Dar al-Harb is the area of war, which the Arabs are commanded to conquer until it is turned into Muslim territory. After a certain territory has been conquered by Islam, it is declared as holy Muslim territory, which is forbidden to be relinquished under any circumstances.
Even if this territory is conquered by another nation for hundreds of years, according to Muslim law it is still considered holy land which must be returned to Muslim control. Accordingly, Muslims execute terrorist attacks in Spain and large parts of India, because the Islam which conquered them in the past, demands them in return now. And if unable to conquer them, Muslims will at least carry out terrorist attacks, so that normal life cannot be conducted there until they are returned to Islamic rule.
The Land of Israel: War Zone The State of Israel constitutes a double problem from their perspective, for it was established on territory that was conquered by Islam since its foundation (except for a period of approximately 100 years when it was ruled by the Dar al-Harb is the area of war, which the Arabs are commanded to conquer. Crusaders); and not only this, but the land of Israel is located in the heart of Muslim territory. Therefore, as far as they are concerned, this is the first place they must conquer - either by sword or by guile.
Some Muslims are more religious, others less; however, the central foundation which strives to conquer and rule remains alive to a great extent amongst all of them.
The present debate between the moderates and the extremists is over the question of whether it is necessary to implement agreements with the State of Israel in order to cause its collapse, or to crush it through extended guerilla warfare. Concerning the goal itself - the dismantling of the State of Israel and the conquering of the entire Land of Israel - none of them concede.
Silence From Middle East Experts There are numerous university departments which deal with the study of Islam and Arabic nations. One could ask: Why don't these experts warn the Western governments about the danger of awakening Islam?
The problem is that today's politically correct language does not allow the Muslim threat to be discussed seriously. All people are supposed to be equal without discrepancies of religion, race or sex; how can one then claim that the Muslim culture presently produces the most serious threat to world peace? Therefore, even one who analyzes the subject correctly is not able to express his thoughts properly within the framework of an accepted public forum. Thus, the danger continues to grow without any experts warning Israel and the world about it.
By the way, there are actually a number of Muslims who, in their wish to highlight the positive sides of the Islamic culture, are worried about the rise of the negative aspects. They presently are the only ones cautioning about the dangers of Islam, but nobody listens to them.
How to Deal With the Threat The only way to exempt a Muslim from going to war is to create a situation where he is totally compelled - without the ability or chance to succeed. Then, he will wait for years or generations, and when the time is right, return to war. Perhaps, in the meantime, those Muslims will repent and correct their outlook, or instead, the time will come for this religion to disappear from the face of the Earth, as other religions have in the past.
However, when we project doubts in relation to our rights to the land and our readiness to fight for it, we are encouraging them to attack us. Additionally, our international status does not improve, just as it did not improve as a result of the woeful Oslo Accords. The more we agree to compromise, the more people throughout the world will support the demand to "return" to the Arabs "all their rights" - in other words, to put an end to our existence.
That is what happened as a result of the Bar-Ilan speech. The prime minister and his supporters were sure that, in the merit of his capitulation and his agreement to a demilitarized "Palestinian State", international pressure concerning the the settlements would be removed. Lo and behold, the reality is the exact opposite - any Any compromise from our side results in additional demands. compromise from our side results in additional demands.
The Settlements: Our Guarantee Therefore, the settlements, which come in the name of God's promise to Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, are the most important thing for Israel's security. Our enemies know that they have no chance to defeat Israel in a face-to-face war, but they are sure that they can destroy Israel through terror and guerilla warfare. It is only the settlers, with their firmness and faith, who stand in their way. As long as the settlers are not ready to compromise on anything, and continue to hold tight to the land, multiply, get stronger and stand firm, the Muslims won't be able to defeat Israel.
Fortunate are those who assist these courageous people, helping to expand the settlements, for this is the foundation of the security and salvation of Israel: "Be of good courage, and let us be strong for our people, and for the cities of our God."
Norman,put a lid on your delusion and stop insulting the intelligence of people who know what's going on in Israel with your 'spin.' You want to know what Israelis think about Obama? http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3726358,00.html
What Israelis think about Obama.
http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/ 0,7340,L-3726358,00.html
Try this link
http://beltwayblips.dailyradar.com/story/60_of_israelis_don_t_trust_obama_israel_news_ynetnews/
The Forward senses that it is losing its battle to alienate American Jews from supporting Israel.
With this manufactured "story" the Forward has gone into full attack mode against Israel, pulling out all stops, using inflammatory anti-Semitic rhetoric and offensive headlines in the hope of demonizing Israel, and attempting to create sympathy for Obama's henchmen in a war declared by him against Israel and American Jews who support her. This "story" is despicable anti-Semitic demagoguery by the virulent extreme-left anti-Israel, Forward. It is a classic attempt to "blame the victim".
The Forward has obviously become hysterical about demonizing Israel's coalition government, frantic that Israelis are standing together against Obama's attacks, and desperate that American Jews are waking up to Obama's having lied to them, his enmity towards Israel, and his attempts to intimidate American Jews and drive a wedge between them and Israel.
This is just too distressing to the "Jewish" Forward, which shares J Street's and Obama's enmity toward Israel. So look at this outrageous "story"! Based on an alleged private comment by Netanyahu (as alleged - without attribution - by the far-left anti-Netanyahu, anti-Israel Ha'aretz, and denied by Netanyahu's spokesman) this hyperventilating "story" is woven out of whole cloth. The Forward just makes stuff up: "many carry scars from derogatory terms" used to describe them. Is this a joke? A spoof on the National Enquirer? (By the way, I would like to be privy to the insulting comments made in private by Obama's propagandists concerning Netanyahu and various American Jewish leaders.)
This pathetic "story" based on a rumor concerning a private comment, is concocted, woven together with old irrelevant stories. The important thing is that it is intended to attempt to drive a wedge between American Jews and Israel with outrageous attacks on Israel's leaders, suggesting that Obama's anti-Israel strategists - not Israel and American Jews - are the "victims". The Forward hopes to incite American Jews to respond with pity and outrage against Israel. It hopes that American Jews can be distracted from the existential dangers posed to Israel by the Obama administration in its policies towards Iran and Israel.
The story is an offense to our intelligence and common sense. Is anyone (other than Jew-haters) offended? Is anyone fooled?
Which Israeli newspaper the forward quotes speaks volumes about where the people at Forward stand. Perhaps it would be wise to consider the source of the reports when one considers the report. I quit reading Ha'aretz years ago. One thing that could cause American Jews and Israeli Jews to see things differently is that the vast majority of American Jews are Reform, while Reform Judaism is only a very small minority in Israel.
It is written in Ezekiel chapter 21. When the king of Babylon leading his forces south to march against Judah and Ammon. On arrival at the fork in the roads wher the decision has to be made about which rebel power to tackle first, the king calls on his priests and divivers. They shake arrows out of a quiver to signify a direction; images of deities are asked fro guidance, enen the livers (or clay representations of them) of sacrificed animals are inspected for signs of divine approval and guidance.
Then in the verse that follows tells us the fate of news: Ezekiel points out in verse 23 that Judah also was trusting in divine guidance and protection. One Nation Under G-D, In G-D We Trust. The gods of Babylon appear as nothing to them. But nevertheless, in betraying Judah solemn oath of loyalty sworn to the king of Babylon , the king of Judah has abandoned hos trust in G-D and cannot now rely on divive support. The very means of divination, which were prohibited in Judah and ridiculed as of no real value, become part of the techniques bring about their downfall. All the familiar military weapons fo the implementation of a siege in verse22 will then be used against them. Note this in Ezekiel Babylonian power and their prophets encourage the worriors by inspiring them to blod action in the name of thier gods and to offer guidance.
Ezekiel's touches of irony often appear to us cruel and harsh, yet beneath them we can feel his rithteous anger and hloy indignation. People who have betrayed their oaths, sworn solemnly before G-D, cannot then pour contempt on the deities and rituals of Babylon that they depise. Had not King Zedekiah despised G-D by what he had done?
If anyone is tempted to take Frank seriously, consider that, for all his super-Zionist talk, he hasn't moved to Israel himself.
The crazies are all here.
From the other side of the pond, one wonders whether such choice terminology is also being applied by certain Israeli officials to Brit Foreign Sec David Miliband; or maybe he's not considered significant enough to be worth including. Anyway, his new foreign minister for the ME Ivan Lewis was considered to be sympatehtic to Israel over Gaza.
I remember when Henry Kissinger was called "Yehudon" when he was in Israel during the "shuttle diplomacy" days. These perjorative attacks do nothing to aid Israel's cause; indeed, they probably hurt it.
Since the allegation is so damaging to Prime Minister Netanyahu it would be nice to know its source, and that source's credibility. It seems to me extremely unlikely that Prime Minister Netanyahu would be so stupid as to make a remark. As for the role of American Jewish officials in regard to relations with Israel there is room for discussion and controversy. This is especially so when they further policies, which despite all their disclaimers, might well do serious damage to Israel.
Obama should suspend all financial aid to Israel until all settlement activity is permanently halted. Then he should give his blessing to the Israelis to handle the Iran problem any way they see fit. With the caveat that they are not going to get any help from the US.
TO NORMAN! Looks and sounds like your last name is FINKELSTEIN!
Right? no I mean Left as in FAR LEFT
The Jews in the U.S. who know more than the Israelis should be called "Antiochus Epiphanes Jews".
Many Jews prior, during and after the persecutions that led to the Maccabean revolt (the Hanhukah story) supported the Syrian Greeks, not the Jews.
While those Jews were certainly traitors, today's White House Jews may be referred to as "Antiochus Epiphanes Jews".....somewhere between self loathing and "I know what's best for the Jewish state, even though I do not live there."
A.Z.
It is difficult to be Jewish and work for any administration, and many Jews in power tend to play down their affiliation with their faith so as not to appear biased. The sad fact is that Israel is in real danger from its neighbors and American Jews are turning a blind eye to these realities. Just last week I awoke to a story on NPR talking about how the Israelis are now trying to make life miserable for the Bedouin's, while later that evening NPR actually featured two stories, both critical of Israel. The first report was about one Israeli governmental figure who was suggesting that the traffic signs no longer have the destination printed in Arabic, followed by yet another story about Israelis who want to ban the word catastrophe in history books when describing the birth of Israel. It sort of makes you wonder if NPR only has one international reporter on staff,and he never travels outside of Israel. What I am trying to say is that the news media is so anti-Israel, it is no wonder that American Jews shy away from saying anything positive about the State. I am sorry that the Forward has chosen to focus on this off-the-cuff remark rather than to address the real problem of why so many Jews feel alienated from a very remarkable country - Israel.
Wow I can't believe what trash is being spewed just in these posts. I am not even talking about the topic but just the back and forth.
This is a perfect example to me why there won't be peace in the Middle East because as Jews we can't even be civil to each other in North America.
I know that any right wing fundamentalists whether they are Arab, Jews, Christians do nothing to forward the cause.
Personally I don't feel that Obama doesn't care or isn't working in Israel's best interest. It's not just up to him to arrange peace, there are other people involved too!!!
Yes that is simplistic, but sometimes simple is the best way to go.
How interesting! The horrors of the Holocaust have been used by a despicable Holocaust Industry to imprison Diaspora Jews into a dark dungeon prison of fear, a fear that can only be exorcized with cash contributions to Israel. And yet, it was the very roots of the current Israeli Likud Party that collaborated with the Nazis, their uniforms tailored by Nazi dressmakers. Now these same Israelis, today's Likud leaders of an Israel that is only a 60 y/o fetus of a state living off of an engorged American $$$ placenta only because, to this day, rather than make peace with their neighbors, they prefer to sneakily expand their borders through ethnic cleansing and bloodshed, are calling "self hating Jews," American Jews in top USA national leadership positions-- THERE AS AMERICANS, NOT AS JEWS. The last group to call any American Jews that filthy name were the Neoconservatives, a crazy bunch of scrawny old shysters seeking to assert their "mensch-hood" belatedly by calling for an American "World War IV" on Islam long before 9/11. As pointed out by one of their devoted underlings, Francis Fukuyama, that "World War IV" was really limited to serving Israeli interests for it was to be limited to the areas of the world where lay Israel's interests. Indeed, democracy was their goal, for I saw many a Neocon con men dealing with Communist Ceausescu to use slave labor in order to manufacture goods for their garment industries cheaply then marking them "made in USA." So, like the pro-Communism of their youth, their anti-Communism of adulthood was for pay (well remunerated by the CIA) and for business. That other American Jews reached such high levels in the US Government is testament to their national value and their patriotism. By contrast, neocons that Bush got into bed with opportunistically in his first term he deemed a danger and cleaned out by his second term. By the end of the latter term, Bush came to see Israel as his father did, avaricious, so that if you give it a finger it goes for the whole arm.
What are we to make of all these "self-hating Jew" charges? First and foremost let us affirm that the mass majority of this planet's Jews consider Israel a nice place to visit but NOT to live-- even the Neocons and most of radical-Zionism's minions. Apparently so do a lot of Israelis, for upon getting degrees from Israel's wonderful universities, they sneak off to Los Angeles, making for a REVERSE ALIYAH! Only the Haredi move to Israel to take advantage of the cheap Government-subsidized houses offered them on Arab lands. But these people are totally non-productive, do not accept Israel the way Zionists do and cost far more than they bring. Indeed, one of their leaders made clear that they would gladly move to within Israel's borders as their current settlements are the only cheap real-estate made available to them. For now the US taxpayer covers that burden, all of it, from settlements to welfare checks. The rest of the Diaspora Jews are, thanks be to God, well integrated and assimilated in the nations where they live, despite the avowed "fight against assimilation" old Abe Foxman and the ADL! Diaspora Jews would have it no other way. But, because they live in Western democracies and were taught Torah in shools where ever they live, they acquire the Jewish Ethic, they do not accept what the Ashkenazis are doing to the Palestinians: treating Arabs as their fellow East Europeans treated them in the first half of the last century, thus causing these East European Jews to flee to Israel. A case can be made that now they take pages from the very tactics handbook of oppression from their last century oppressors as justification for the Lebensraum they seek in a Greater Israel.
Now Israel is desperate as it knows no other way to live than the high-life of luxurious welfare checks as gift of US taxpayers (only the ones who get to the money first, Mizrahis are as poor as Arabs). That rich benevolence is acquired by American Jews through Congressional manipulation, motivated by the burden of guilt inherited from their parents over the silence of American Jews when FDR refused to accept German Jewish refugees and save them from the Holocaust. Netanyahu as Finance Minister under Sharon swore he would make Israel free of the American dole. He failed; indeed now he needs far, far more than Israel was getting then. But America is broke and-- bogged down in a war with Islam, thanks to the Neocons, could never do for a nation of 5 million people more than it ever did for whole continents. The Neocons simply insist that it is a law of the Universe that "whatever is good for Israel MUST be good for America," therefore the US cannot refuse Israel anything because, ipso-facto refusal would be detrimental to US interests. Such sophistry-- like all the sophistry by which Israel justified all its immoral actions-- will no longer go. Indeed, as I often pointed out from careful observation of silent areas where Jews do not look, we are at 20 minutes to an American Krystalnacht as Americans seek scapegoats for their suffering, unwilling to take responsibility for the role of their own avarice in their economic fate. And, an Israel that insolently bites the hand that feeds it is all they need to set them off.
And yet, we note that Israel is at it big time-- even advertises how it pummels as "self hating Jews" the American Jews who patriotically serve their government because they seek to impose on Israel justice for peace and to bring it in line with the interests of the hand that feeds it. Why are they so brazen and insulting? Could it be that indeed they want to bring the clock to five minutes to Krystalnacht because they want to stampede in fear to Israel American Jews with all their wealth in an involuntary "Great Aliyah"? Are Likudniks so blind and unable to see that the mass majority of Jews are as American as apple pie or as European as are their fellow Europeans? Do they not see that if forced to choose between Israel and their exalted position in the Diaspora they will choose patriotically their nations of birth, reserving their Judaism as a practice of faith rather than as nationality? The clock is running in reverse for Israel. Israeli officials by the droves carry an ammunition clip in one back pocket for an Uzi to shoot Arabs with and an American passport in the other, just in case. Indeed, Israel's ambassador to the US comes here announcing his dual citizenship, American and Israeli. Is it their game to deliberately reinforce the image of the Jew as a Fifth Columnist for the nation that advised the US into an Iraq war it is ignobly losing? Is it now Israel's strategy to demand that the Jewish American patriots serving in the Obama Administration rise and denounce US President Obama as an anti-Semite pro-Arab so that Americans then force American Jews into the "Great Aliyah" to Israel that hasn't happened, leaving 78% of the "settlements" without settlers? Is that what Sharon meant when he declared that any Jew who doesn't move to Israel by 2020 "will forever lose his Jewish soul"?
An old saying goes: BE CAREFUL WHAT YOU WISH FOR. It can be said categorically that Zionism is not the first priority of Diaspora Jews-- the safety, prosperity and integration of their children prioritizes. A Zionist-anti-Semite coalition would not be new; but Jews learn from experience, they have to, and will not repeat this scandalous tropism that damages their assimilated status. MOST Jews in the Diaspora want fairness; they want Palestinians treated with the same fairness they always wanted for Israelis. They do not want the extermination of Arabs by Zionists, will not pay for it and will not advocate for it. Keep it up Likud and the Diaspora Jews will respond to your charge of "self-hating Jews" by declaring that THEY ARE NOT SELF HATING JEWS BUT JEWS WHO KNOW BETTER AND HATE ZIO-FASCISTS. What will the Zionists radicals now shamelessly slandering America's Jewish leaders do then?
A smaller Israel at peace with a Palestine economically integrated with Israel is a GREATER Israel, for at this time the Arabs need Israel to protect them from their nightmare of a nuclear Iran. Seeing how well Israel treats Palestinians, the Arabs will then call on Israel to lead the region from its banana republic one crop (oil) economies. Then, Israel high-tech educated youth will not need to go as far as Los Angeles in a reverse aliyah. They can stay and be "a light onto the [Arab] nations"-- their cousins from the same family, the People of Canaan-- as Israel's Founding Fathers originally hoped to do.
Netanyahu is just bluffing. He is too much of a Sabra and too much of a realist to believe such trash about Rahm&Co. But he manipulates it to stay in power so he can save Israel. I hope Rahm&Co realize that and let the harsh words pass. But be sure that if having to choose between Israel and the well-being of the Diaspora, despite my love of Israel, I will always choose the safety of the Diaspora Jews first and will fight against any effort to stampede Diaspora Jews against their multi-generations self-interests for some short term interest of a few Israelis. Make peace no war because that, most importantly, stops the REVERSE ALIYAH from Israel-- so will many, many others with a debt to the Jewish people.
Lastly, a psychotic Israeli lawyer, Oley Taitz, is running a campaign from Tel Aviv to remove Obama from the Presidency on grounds that he is "an illegal alien" in the USA. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WNHIR1NcuL4&feature=related http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WNHIR1NcuL4&feature=related Be careful, whoever put his money behind her, for this is the spark that could run the American Krystalnacht Clock from twenty-to to zero-time. By then few of us will be able to save anyone and their blood will be on the hands of the same Zio-fascists who call Rahm &Co "self-hating Jews."
I once wrote on this for B'nai B'rith Magazine, before it was cut, because it was slightly critical of Abba Eban and included quotes from Noam Chomsky. Readers who are interested can read the piece, titled "In Defense of 'Self-Hating' Jews," in Jewish Currents here: http://www.jewishcurrents.org/2007-may-wecker.htm.
Don't you see what the new Obama tactic is? It is the old 'divide and conquer' over again. Let's 'separate' Israelis and American Jews, let them fight each other, and then deliver the quick blow to both. Easy. Shame on the Forward for playing along with the 'party line'! And we always had our emanuels and rosses in our midsts. Remember Josephus Flavious? How, do you think, millions still survived centuries of persecution and the Holocaust?
Better to describe what they do rather than call names. Emanuel et al. align themselves with terrorists by attempting to deprive the Jewish people of their land and weaken the Jewish state. What else needs to be said?
I took an emetic from my childhood Kool-Aid that the crux of being a Jew is blind support for whatever fekakte government runs Israel and whatever fekakte policies Israel chooses to pursue.
The cure seems to have worked; I can now bring myself to say aloud: Israel's 200+ fission weapons are a mistake, a bad thing, and against Israel's own best interests. And I can say it aloud to Jew or non-Jew.
It is long past time for Jews of the Diaspora to celebrate their own experience, achievements, contributions to Judaism and the world, and deep significance.
Where Diaspora Jews can be on the same page with an Israeli political administration, let us all rejoice.
Where Diaspora Jews have deep dismay and objections about the actions and policies of an Israeli political administration, let the wisest Jews of the Diaspora and the wisest Israeli Jews (like the late Teddy Kollek and Abie Nathan) celebrate these disputes, and rejoice that they may, however unwillingly and grudgingly, nudge political Israel toward policies that will be in Israel's long-term best interests.
Surprise: Since the rise of the Jewish community in Alexandria, Judaism isn't all about Israel anymore. Judaism is about the entire Planet Earth (and orbital space), and the lives and achievements of Jews from Antarctica to Canada, wherever they have wandered and created communities by flight or by choice.
When they dare to differ from him, Netanyahu calls Diaspora Jews "self-hating Jews." I shall have to contemplate an equivalent bumper sticker for Bibi the corrupt, philandering Israeli blimp.
Personally, I enjoy all this meshugas for the opportunity it affords to look into the seriously deranged mind of Jew-haters like the preceding 'Dteodoru.' Way to go, Teo baby!
You know what?-D.Teodoru & Bob Merkin are the only voices of sanity in here.
You can also call Jew Boy Ross Greenburg CEO of HBO for his antisemitism of Dmitriy Salita They hate other jews to look politically correct
Obama as the new Messiah will do to the Jews what Hitler & Stalin tried to do but failed to accomplish. Obama the Messiah will speed up the process of assimilation and the ultimate destruction of Jewry in the only true Democracy in the West. Emanuel, Soros, Ross, Axelrod are but a few of the Jews that are already lining up to put the icing on the cake for America's Jews. In Germany we love the Jews and to a degree Israel. The reason for this is simple. The Jews that we didn't kill, escaped. This will happen in America as well. Conversion or death, just like the Inquisition.
I have lived in both the US and Israel for significant periods of time. I speak Hebrew. Many times in the course of my life I have felt that I was living on two sides of a continental fault. Even when we are all Jews who share devotion to our heritage, including the survival of Israel, we see the world differently. Our ideals and internalized images are not the same. We live in different realities. In Rahm Emanuel, I believed we had an individual who was aware and capable of seeing both sides in depth. Obviously, I expected too much of him. Obama's observations after visiting the remains of the Holocaust in Europe were so shallow and patronizing, it was obvious that no one was giving him good advise. As for Israel and the Middle East, Obama has shown that he was exactly as untutored as some of us,that is the twenty-two percent who didn't vote for him, thought him to be. Unfortunately, the Jewish people everywhere are represented by men grasping for political power. We are not well served.
Only a Jew can fully understand the Holocaust. No one else. Not even a German can fathom the depths that our country managed to place itself in. Expecting a Coloured man to understand the Holocaust is like asking me to recite Jewish prayers. It just will not happen. Jews place too much faith in false messiahs, be they the socialists of old, or the modernists and assimilationists of today. Jews need to rely on their own intuition and knowledge. During the election of 1932-3 the Jews of Berlin actually supported Hitler thinking he and only he can deliver Germany and especially Berlin out of the Great Depression that engulfed the world. My family supported Hitler for the exact same reason. Everyone in Germany did. Look at the might support that Obama has from the Jewish Community. They will support him right until they enter the ovens. Nothing really has changed has it?
if hundred+ of different ethnicities want to live with chabad-lubavitch, haredim, hassidim, reform, talmudniks, mosheists, orthodox, ultra-orthodox in a state for 'jews' only, i fervently wish they get one in yukon.
canada loves 'jews', but when it comes to giving them own land where they wld be much safer, canada rather gives them s'mone's elses land where they are not wanted and where they cannot ever establish a state of their own unless the same country along with all other christian lands allows 'jews' to oust pal'ns.
so the mess is on! No israel nor a 'jewish' state even after near-century of bloodletting and no end in sight unless west that made the mess orders 'jews' to live in a mess once again: binat'l state but largely sans white people.
why is west scared to allow an ouster? I think we all know why! So, in fact, the problem for 'jews' appears to be: pal'ns are not leaving and the west does not at this time allow an expulsion. what to do? Well, rage! tnx
You know, all this who loves Israel and who loves Jews is a very difficult issue. Let us assume that all sides consist of people of good faith ( I don't really believe it, but let's assume) The ultimate litmus test will be when we see who's grandchildren will consider themselves Jewish. I'm willing to bet that the inter-marriage and assimilation rate is considerably higher among those that support Obama. It's really not that complex. Those that know the most and live closest to the demands of Torah are less enamored of Obama than those that support him. Jews that think they know what Judaism is, who have no Jewish education, who are obsessed with their identity and have no idea of what they are proud of are far more likely to witness their grandchildren expressing disdain for their precious Judaism. Conflating Judaism with the platform of the Democratic Party will create children that become ultra-orthodox (what a punishment!How many livid secular Jews are there whose children have repudiated their vision of Judaism and adopted chareidism ?) or who vote with their feet and have the least nominal connection with Jewishness (b/c their parents' vision of Judaism is political and personal and is very difficult to transmit). It is only the descendants of the Pharisees(in the Diaspora) that have children at above the replacement rate (2.1 children per couple) Look at your friends and neighbours, look at your birth rates, look at your single population, look at the age of those that are affiliated with those movements that supported Obama and tell me that your Jewish future exists ( i don't know how many really care). The US Jewish community-including Chareidim- has a birth rate of 1.8/ couple. Jewish women have the highest level of education and finish school at 28. Add a few years for professional development. The biological clock is ticking. The proportion of elderly among Jews is the highest among US ethnic groups and the number of children is the lowest among US ethnic groups. Where is your future? All the arguements your communities make about Jewish pride and Israel are meaninglss if your children plan on marrying out( Obviously, I'm discussing communities. Individuals can do their best and fall short of success b/c of factors they don't control) I don't know what will happen to Israel politically, but I do know that following the advice of communities that are incapable of perpetuating its identity ( will not or cannot?) is not very wise. It is a tragedy that Israel, like Chareidim and some Jewish notions like a personal God, Free Will, the Chosen People, the innate dignity of life embarrass assimilating Jews. As Rabbi Arthur Herzburg, a Conservative ( that's capital C) Rabbi and political progressive of the post- Holocaust generation said. "Assimilating Jews are are amature gentiles." Your great-grandparents sold their heritage for some non-kosher french fries. Your grandparents adopted Roosevelt( who failed to help Jews during the Holocaust) because his notions of Tikkun Olam were closer to Stalin's than to Herbert Hoover's and substituted God with liberalism, despite the lip service to the contrary ( what was that line in Shakespeare?"The lady doth protest too much, methinks.") The present generation has placed its religious fervour in Obama, reflecting, not Obama's qualities, but the tabula rasa quality that they hoped to imprint their Utopian vision-remember, all Utopia's are totalitarian and the descendents of the "Me Generation" find that the need to take personal responsibility for their own destiny is excessively demanding. So they turn to Obama who will do it all for them.
Israel is in more danger of being a chillul hashem than it is in danger from its neighbors. Rahm is trying to save it from itself.
Some of the Jews on this forum sound like my Nazi relatives of the past. Keep it up people. The oven are waiting for all you Socialists much the same way they were during the Holocaust. Keep on believing in Obama and see where that gets you. The first people to be rounded up were the Socialists and the Communists.Don't forget that.
First Chief Rabbi Kook understood it is important to do what must be done, whether Socialist or Religious fanatic, with love in your heart for your neighbor despite ideology. It's all about in who or what do we trust? Mark Levine and Rabbi Michael Lerner come from another time and place as does David Axelrod and Rham Emanuel.
David, in a previous posting, is correct, Israel needs to be saved from itself and Axelrod and Emanuel are just trying to do just that but the present Israeli government, under Netanyahu, is intent on following the path of self-destruction.
After reading a lot of these posts the only conclusion that can be reached is that idiots come in all stripes. I wouldn't call anyone a self-hater since it is quite possible to be an idiot without being a self-hater. Besides, being a Jew is a cultutal designation, not a religious one. You're supposed to love or like a person for what the person is, not for what their ancestry may have been.
Those who think Obama has the answer to the Middle East problems either aren't following what's going on in the world or are failing to understand what's happening. They are so into their liberal ideology that they are deceiving themselves. The only thing the so-called Palestinian Arabs are interested in is for some outside force to save themselves from the consequences of their past actions.
It's almost painful to read so much hate aimed at Israel by people that are supposed to be Jewish. While they pretend to be concerned (and that is why they are supporting coersive policies against the Jewish state), but everything that comes out of their "mouths" is poison and undermines the security and the very future of the Jews' homeland. Can these individuals (if they're capable of it?) cast their minds back through the centuries of Jewish helplessness, their total impotence in the face of their enemies? Have they been able to thrill to the outcome of the Antebe raid? Did the recapture of Jerusalem (after nearly two millenia of "Next Year in Jerusalem" burning in Jewish hearts)bring out in them tears of joy? What about the revival of Hebrew as a living language? Did the miraculous ingathering of exiles make their hearts swell? No? If none of the above make them doubt the "tough love"(like Cinderella's step-mother's) of Obama's administration, these nominally Jewish individuals are no longer Jews. Oh, they may scream and resent their exclusion, but the fact remains that in a world full of anti-Israel animus, we don't need former Jews (I didn't expell you from the ranks: your AWOL is your own doing) joining with our enemies and provide them with more ammo to kill more Jews. If you're not former Jews, what are you hanging on to?
Barack Obama was elected President of the United States, not Prime Minister of Israel and he was elected to do what's in America's best interests, not Israel's. These so called Jewish Purity Police who criticize other Jews who work for the American government and call them self haters have never fought to defend Israel in any wars Israel has been involved in and I am certain few if any of these people who attack other Jews as being self haters have ever contributed money to an Israeli charity as well.
Lebanon has Hezbollah holding their country hostage and Israel has the right wingers and settlers holding Israel hostage. The settlers are no better than Hezbollah.
The Jewish defenders of Obama will never admit they were wrong when they voted for him. They would rather allow Obama to sell Israel down the river than admitting that they made a mistake in supporting him.
The bottom line is these people HATE George Bush more than they LOVE Israel.
Isaiah 9:13 .....read it. The message resulting from this vision of G-D'S majesty is Israel future of nullification, a ceasing to be in the world. The burden of the oracle is that G-D has given up on this beloved people and will no more protect them, but will actively intervene to undo them.
G-D doesnot always will good to people.
The entent of the government of G-D is negative---not notice and so not to turn and so not to be healed!
The intention of the decree of G-D is that Judah and Jerusalem should be narcoticized so that they will not be heald. G-D'S wills an unhealed people. This is not what we might expect, but nevertheless, it is written in Isaiah 6:9-13
Does Judah and Jerusalem deserve something better from G-D?
The answer from G-D, given immediately, without hesitation or qualification, is----UNTIL!
It is written in Isaiah 6:11 Then I said, " How long, O LORD And he said: "Until cities lie waste without inhabitant, and houses without people, and the land is utterly desolate; Until the LORD sends everyone far away, and vast is the emptiness in the midst of the land. Even if a tenth part remain in it it will be burned again like a terebinth or an oak whose stump remains standing when it is felled." The holy seed is its stump.
Sounds like G-D has given up on this beloved people, does it not???
what is wrong is those who suffer from spiritual blindness and do not properly discern who G-D realy is and what he requires. The vision of G-D is harsh---it is harsh to recognize that the rule of G-D is refected by G-D'S own people. For it is written....Psalm 118...The stone the builders rejected has become the capstone; the LORD has done this, and it is marvelous in our eyes. The true foundation of G-D is seen here by David and others, note the words in this Psalm...in--OUR--eyes. They turned to put G-D first in mind and in heart in all they do. Psalm 51 and Psalm 101 tells how.
What is G-D wanting??? There are no turnings, no healings, for the people, to turn from sin is to demanding There is no easy words from G-D, no cheap grace, no good works that gives assurance to those who drop by hoping for a quick and confortable deal. It we don't turn and be heald, there terrible consequences for all of us.
If one does not turn and be healed it leads to ones termination, from G-D.
We need, to put the desire of G-D on our hearts and minds. Turn, and become the mirror image of our Creator --Bohray. For it is written Lamentations 3: I called on Your name, O LORD, from the depts of the pit. Ps 51: Behold, thou desirest truth in the inward parts: and in the hidden part thou shalt make me to know wisdom, Purge me with hyssopl and I shall be clean: wash me, and I shall be whiter than snow. Make me to hear joy and gladness; that the bones which thou hast broken may rejoce. Hide thy face from my sins, and blot out all mine iniquities. Create in me a clean heart, O G-D; and renew a right spirit within me. Cast me not away from thy presence; and take not thy holy Spirit from me.
The branches are to "bear fruit." in United States or in Israel. The vineyard has failed to enact its true character. G-D'S patience is running out. Everyone is seeking self-advancement, and no one cares anymore for the public good. Everything has gone to the dogs! Israel and United States and most of the world, everything precious has been devalued by distortion and abuse, now anarchy and lawlessness, self-indulgent, unprincipled leaders.
Every choice intails a future. The choice of obedience is a choice of fruitful, blessed productive land. The choice of rebellion is to be "devoured." It is written in Isaiah 1. The Whole Drama of Life- Death-New Life----make your choice----it's not a vote. It does not matter who is in office----we are one on one with G-D.
It's easy to forget that the liberal self-haters here who support Obama no matter what were probably also cheering the loudest as Israel surrended dangerous concession after dangerous concession to the greatest terrorist this world has seen and to the greatest murderer of Jewish children since Adolf Hitler.
Nice going, folks!
Our President went to Cairo to apologize to Moslems worldwide for no reason. It was America who toppled the dictator Saddam Hussein who was responsible for the murder, rape and torture of one million of his own people and America who freed Afganistan from the tyranny of the Taliban, a group of religious fanatics who pour acid on young girls faces who dare to want an education. It was America under Bill Clinton, who bombed Serbia and stopped their genocide of Moslems in Kosovo. Obama has exerted all his efforts in pressuring Israel over settlements and done nothing to stop the anti-semitic,vile hatred towards Israel and Jews that comes from the Palestinians and Arab countries every day.
He seems to forget that when Israel removed all its settlers from Gaza when Israel got in return earlier this year were thousands of rockets targeted at schools, hospitals, and homes. Obama is in such a rush to normalize our relationship with Syria, who helped smuggle insurgents and weapons into Iran that killed hundreds of our soldiers, that one must wonder if the next thing he plans to do is offer to ship arms from Iran directly to Hezbollah and save Syria the trouble??
Obama went to Russia and immediately offered to cave in to the dictator Putin's demand about not having a defensive shield in place in Poland and the Czech Republic and in return Putin has stepped up his efforts to form an alliance with the dictatorship in Syria, and help accelerate Iran's rush to a nuclear bomb, and Putin laughs at Obama's weakness. Drawing adoring crowds here means nothing to other countries nor does Obama's lofty rhetoric do anything to stop dictators from oppressing their own people.
I guess this is what he meant by change you can believe in.
Rahm and Axelrod are self-hating Jews! Not only do they support anti-Jewish and anti-Israel policies but they both married Gentile women and have Gentile children. Their Gentile families aren't affected by anti-semitism or if a 2nd Holocaust occurs. Why would a Jewish man care about the future of the Jewish community when his own children aren't even Jewish?
Let's not forget that President Obama was close personal friends with many radical Arabs including a Plo spokesman. Any Jew who supports or voted for Obama is a self-hating Jew and wants Israel to be destoryed.
Mikhail; You forgot to include Max Kellerman, HBO boxing sportscaster, as another self-hating Jew who hates Salita and criticizes him whatever chance he gets. This is not surprsining since Max's wife is an Irish Catholic as is his daughter. As we can see intermarriage is a common thread with most male Jewish self-haters.
As as a European, I am quite amazed to witness how things are getting nasty between pro and anti Obama in the US Jewish community when it comes to Israel.
This course of event is more over questionable (or is it?) when the majority of jews voted for Obama. Should we understand that the supporters of the preceding administration are more than bitter by the outcome and the consequent loss of their monopoly as main interlocutor? Is to be paid dearly at the price of internecine fights?
I am not there to give lessons but truth is that from the other side of the Atlantic, it looks as if passion was getting over reason. Articles relate attitudes colored with a lot of ideology or distrust and why not to mention jewish paranoia. Maybe it is time to take a break and have some talks to get over difference before it becomes a disaster.
The defense of Israel abroad will last only with the unity of the jews who agree on common and realistic grounds. A little less emotion and more pragmatism could help.
We should not forget that some close friends would be more than willing to seize the opportunity offered by a US Israel relationship showing significant cracks.
Anti-intermarriage I will also thank you not to insult my cousins who married non-Jews. I will thank you to go away.
It is heartening to see some of the intelligent thoughtful pro-Israel posts, above.
American Jews, although fooled in large numbers by Obama, are waking up. They are not so left-leaning and gullible as some would have hoped. It is interesting that the virulent extreme far-left anti-Israel propagandists, like George Soros' "J Street" (supported by the Forward) have all along been resorting to manipulating "polls":
.....
STREET FOUNDING VP SECRETLY COOKS ITS LEFT-LEANING POLLS
Noah Pollak in Commentary reveals that Jim Gerstein, who conducts public opinion polls that invariably show US Jewish opinion further left than any other surveys, was a founding vice president of J Street, the anti-AIPAC lobby that seeks to build pressure for concessions on Israel. The revelation, suppressed in the publications of the organization but uncovered in its IRS filings, casts into further doubt the already questionnable polling data used by the left-wing lobbying group in its campaign to support Obama Administration criticism and bullying tactics against the Israeli leadership, especially Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu:
......
"Since its founding, J Street has employed polling as a central tactic in its effort to convince people that American Jewish opinion on Israel is ideologically aligned with its own far-Left views. The three-step is simple but shrewd: if Jewish opinion does not support your agenda, 1) create some polls to show that it does; 2) declare yourself the new mainstream; 3) accuse the traditional organizations of being the real extremists.
Much skepticism of J Street’s polls has accompanied their release, and many have pointed out their clever, results-oriented phrasing. But this hasn’t diminished their ability, when people accuse them of advocating an agenda that has little support among American Jews, to point to their own polling and declare themselves the true representatives of Jewish opinion.
J Street’s polls have always been conducted by Jim Gerstein, who runs a far-Left progressive political consultancy in Washington. As J Street says on its polling pages, “Survey analysis from Jim Gerstein, Principal at Gerstein | Agne, the firm that commissioned the poll.”
Now J Street is an advocacy organization, not a newspaper or a judge, so it need not police its conflicts of interest with fastidious rigor. But Jim Gerstein is not simply a principal at the firm that conducts polls for J Street. He was J Street’s vice president.
You’d never know this from J Street’s staff page or the voluptuous promotion that accompanies the release of a J Street poll. You wouldn’t know it from all the mentions of Gerstein on J Street’s website, in which he is always portrayed as an independent actor. In order to know that he was J Street’s founding vice president, you’d have to look at J Street’s 990 IRS form.
So J Street not only commissions polls—it writes the questions, conducts them, analyzes the results, and then carries out promotional campaigns with the findings. If you were wondering how it was possible that J Street could repeatedly produce “polling data” that almost perfectly complements the group’s political agenda, now we have one important clue."
Frank-I don't support intermarriage, my wife and I are both Torah observant Jews, and my Mom, a devout Reform Jew, has been married twice to Jews i.e. my late father and her current husband, a retired lawyer. Why can't you just be a compassionate listener instead of some bully who always has to knock people down? Medinat Yisrael's security isn't enhanced by your lack of civility.
anti-intermarriage needs to do a little reading about the Holocaust if he thinks children of a Jewish father and gentile mother will be in no danger in the event of a second one.
A militant Israel that runs children over with bulldozers and drops cluster bombs onto villages in S. Lebanon for no apparent reason other than spite when the war is already over makes the community look bad and polarizes Jews from gentiles. This is especially true if no Jews are conspicuously seen protesting these atrocities (or if the media doesn't report it when they do). These "self-haters" are rehabilitating the reputation of the Jewish people and reducing the chances of the 1930-1940s being repeated. Netanyahu and his cohorts are playing with fire and the future of all of our children.
Why does the "Jewish" Forward allow posts like the one preceding by "David" to remain as anti-Semitic graffiti?
The virulent blood libels spread by the likes of "David" above, are the stuff of Joseph Goebbles.
Jews "run over children with bulldozers"? Jews drop cluster bombs on "villages for ... spite"?
Why are arab and "progressive" Jew-hating vermin allowed to post these blood libels on a "Jewish" web site?
I accuse the Forward of being an extremist far-left anti-Israel/anti-Semitic propagandist of the worst kind.
Frank, I won't respond to your bombast with more bombast.
Israel's neighbors aren't going away and it needs to live with them on terms that benefit both sides. Israel should be the commercial and banking center of the entire Middle East, not Dubai. Israel should be selling its products to Saudis and Egyptians, not shipping them halfway around the world to America. Israel should be the country that Arabs look to as an example of a just democratic society where women and minorities have equal rights.
What is the best way to get from here to there?
Despite the anti-Israel "Jews" and their propaganda the tide is starting to turn:
http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1249418583563&pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FShowFull
Hey anti-intermarriage, where’s the _Ahavat Yisrael_? Rahm Emanuel’s wife and kids are Jewish. As for the family of David Axelrod, his wife Susan [née Landau] has not left much of an electron trail, beyond that they have three children, Lauren, Michael, and Ethan, that the eldest, Lauren, has epilepsy, and that Susan Axelrod is the tireless president of CURE [Citizens United for Research in Epilepsy], which she founded in 1998.
No, I haven't found Susan Axelrod’s ketubah online, nor have I found that she has been the president of the synagogue’s Sisterhood. But if I had, I imagine you and your ilk would believe that as much as a notarized, official certificate of life birth from Hawaii.
David, so now people hate Jews b/c they run children over with bulldozers. So what happened in the 1930's. Did Jews also run children over with bulldozers. Aha! It was the failure of Jews to protest the fact that Jews ran children over with bulldozers that caused the Holocaust and convinced your idol, Franklin Roosevelt to refrain from allowing Jews to immigrate to the USA in face of the Hitler threat. Yet your ilk worships this man that has so much blood on his hands. What about the 1800's in Russia and France ? What did the Jews do to engender the Dreyfus Case and the bloody reign of the czars.
Fact check:
David is correct when he talks about Israeli forces running over children with bulldozers.
Most people think of Rachel Corrie, but there were others. http://www.encyclopedia.com/doc/1P2-1239930.html Israel Holds 2 Soldiers In Assault; 4 Arabs Reportedly Were Buried Alive By Army Bulldozer The Washington Post, February 16, 1988, Glenn Frankel
This made a strong impression on me in 1988 because my Hebrew school teacher told us a story of how the Nazis buried Jews alive with bulldozers.
So Jews are treating the Palestinians the same way the Nazis treated the Jews.
What does "Never again" mean?
Should Jews insist that the Israelis stop? Or should they defend Israel? Should we be like the patriotic Germans? Or should we be like the unpatriotic Germans?
I know which side I'm on. Wir schweigen nicht.
Jack, Jews are both an ethnicity and a faith. Being born a Jew is essentially a meaningles sstate of being. Torquemada, Pfeffercorn and many other enemies of the Jewish people had Jewish origins.Marx, Engels, St. Paul and many others of Jewish birth contributed, by design or otherwise, to the immense suffering of Jews. How many Jews contributed money and urged other Jews to support Hitler during his rise to power? Rare is it that Jews in high political position have essayed to publicly support Jewish causes out of desperation for acceptance. In fact many bend backward for fear of being identified excessively as working in the Jewish interest ( There are exceptions-Morgenthau, Roosevelt's Treasury Sec., Lieberman to some extent) Jews are better of relying on the Scoop Jacksons, Guillianis and Stephen Harpers of the world than the Rahm Emmanuels, Axelrods and the Clinton Cabal of Jews (or the New York Times) Rare is it that a public Jew will stand up for Jewish interests, unless it involves acquiring votes and cash contributions, serving the short term interest and then often betraying their constituents. Jewish identity for some is merely the result of random result of a sperm successfully fertilizing an ovary. This is a Jew by accident.The issue is what do you do with your Jewishness? Do you stand with the Jewish people and seek the continuity of a Jewish future? The US Jewish birth rate is the lowest among all ethnic groups. Does this show a commitment to the future of the Jewish people? Does one provide their children, assuming that one has some, with a meaningful Jewish education, which involves much sacrifice? Does one seek to perpetuate the Jewish people by working for uniquely Jewish institutions? ( One can be supportive of Jewish and universal efforts similtaneously) Gastronomic Judaism? Doesn't count. Enjoying rock songs or movies starring Jews?Doesn't count.Going to malls with Jews? Doesn't count. Being Jewish means that it is a central part of who you are. Does one stand with the Jewish people ? Or does one stand with a President who equates the 1948 War of Indepence in Israel with the Holocaust, sits passively in the pew of a vicious anti-Semitic preacher, befriends America haters who murdered people and got off on a technicality and has close relations with a Hamas supporting, anti-Israel professor Khalidi. Does one stand with a President who awards Medals of Freedom, to Mary Robinson, complicit with the Jew hating events that occurred at Durban? A president who has as his adviser,Samantha Power, who advocated using force to compel Israel to settle the Middle Eastern issue on terms favorable to Israel's enemies. Do you not understand that the two state solution is merely a device to enable a sovereign enemy state on its borders,that will never accept a Jewish state in its midst. No Arab state has accepted Obama's request that they make confidence building moves toward Israel. Your birth has very little to do with who you are. Except in the eyes of many non-Jews who don't discriminate between your heroes Axelrod and Emmanual. The fact that people do good works is not an exclusively Jewish behavior. To point out that spermal / ovarian Jews do charitable work is not to identify them as connected to the Jewish community. Where are the sources of your values? Are they authentically Jewish ? Or are they cherry picked for the ones that make you feel good. There are many anti-Semites in the Democrat Party? The fact that they share the socialist liberal ethos is not necessarily a Jewish act.
Since Axelrod and Emanuel influence obama, I would conclude that both of them are against Israel. As always, Israel is suppose to give up everything for nothing with the arab terrorists. If Axelrod and Emanuel are so smart they should understand this, unless they are afraid to enrage the non-Jews and try to appear fair and balanced. They could then be called sell-outs or Uncle Hymie's, which I think they are.
The entire problem in the middle east is the non-exceptance of Israel and the Jews period.. nothing else. Tell jordan to absorb the arabs occupying Israeli land. They have plenty of room for them since "No Jews are allowed to live in jordan."
The concept of self hatred was created by a christian theologian who explained that Jews hate themselves so much they can't believe that Jesus loves them and thereby can't possibly ever convert to christianity.
I am not at all sure this speaks well of Jews who call anyone who disagrees with them "self Hating." Are they self loving?
How does this explain why it is the right wing which usually spouts this epithet? How does that conform with the left wing having fought, bled and died to create the state of Israel while the right wing stood by & cried that it might reflect poorly on all Jews if the progressives made it look like Jews were being too aggressive in demanding sovreignty?
It is that right wing now which swears that it, and it alone, is the sole true Israeli and true Jew. It is that right wing which now swears that progressives exist only for the sake of destroying the nation they created with their blood, broken limbs and human spirit.
I am told there a good conservatives in Israel but they do not speak out against the hatred spewing out the mouths of those cry out that all who disagree with them are self hating jews and anti Israelis.
When you are Jewish and choose to insult someone by calling him Yehudon, what are you saying about being a Jew? If you insult someone by calling him essentially exactly what you are, are you the one who is self hating?
African Americans call someone Uncle Tom in an effort to denigrate him. Uncle Tom was fictional character created by a caucasian woman. Was Yehudon ever fictional or was that what those who senselessly hated Jews called all Jews?
Chaim Klein—
Who’s the arbiter of authentic Jewishness, you? Mebbe it’s some Christian theologian, like the fellow Kal cited as the originator of the “self-hating Jew”? Or perhaps the arbiter of authentic Jewishness is Bill O’Reilly, who prob’ly imagines himself a Christian theologian?
Don’t dare to lecture me or anyone else on who is an authentic Jew and who isn’t. You and “anti-intermarriage” cutting off fellow Jews because their politics aren’t in lock with yours does more to diminish the Jewish People than anything Ross, Emanuel, Axelrod, Indyk, Miller, or Kurtzer have ever done.
No Jack, Rahm's wife and children are NOT JEWISH! Rahm's wife went through a fraudulent express "conversion" by a Conservative Rabbi only so she could marry Rahm in a Jewish ceremony. Rahm's wife is not a real Jew nor are his children. They are Gentiles and Rahm knows it!
I forgot to add that Axelrod's wife is also not Jewish. As I wrote before Rahm and Axelrod have Gentile families and are not part of the Jewish community so they don't care about what happens to Israel or the Jewish people.
anti-intermarriage—
Who died and made you Rahm Emanuel’s official posek? If Amy Emanuel’s conversion is as fraudulent as you claim, why don’t you contact Emanuel’s rabbi at Anshe Sholom, Asher Lopatin? His email is -rabbi@asbi.org. When you’re done with that, you can report back to us how that went.
What!? You say R. Lopatin isn’t a real Jew? Well, isn’t that convenient! With all us inauthentic, self-hating Jewboys hanging around, perhaps you should unplug your computer and all its peripheals, leave it outside the camp for seven days, and then wash it in a flowing stream.
When I’m readin’ JTA And that man comes on to tell me How Jewish Rahm can be But he can’t be a Jew 'cause he doesn’t grow The same kind of beard as me I can't get no, oh no no no Hey hey hey, that's what I say
The last paragraph should have read:
When I’m readin’ JTA
And that man comes on to tell me
How Jewish Rahm can be
But he can’t be a Jew 'cause he doesn’t grow
The same kind of beard as me
I can't get no, oh no no no
Hey hey hey, that's what I say
Jack, Jack, chill. I never arrogated Jewishness to any denomination or required any theological demarcation.What makes Jewishness? I said that to be a Jew can be merely an ethnic designation.N If you are happy to define a Jew by birth then you are saying there is no difference between Lev Bronstein ( Trotsky), Kaganovich and many of Stalin's henchmen who were responsible for persecuting other Jews and someone like Brandeis or Rabbi Arthur Herzberg. Tell me Jack, how does one differentiate between Ethel and Julius Rosenberg who contributed to the death, enslavement and oppression of 100's of millions for many almost 40 years and the famous sage Hillel ? Does the Rosenberg's Jewishness differ from yours? What is so significant about emerging from a Jewish womb or being the product of Jewish sperm? Instead of attacking me for defining authenticity, which I never do, why don't you define what makes a Jew other than birth.All If there is nothing other than birth that defines a Jewish identity then being born a Jew is no different than saying that I was born a caucaisian, or born tall. It's just an accident of birth. At least some Jews, like Rahel Varnhagen were honest about hating their heritage and cursing their misfortune in being born a Jew. Alternately, Benjamin Disraeli was aggressively proud of his Jewish heritage and wrote novels centered around Jewish heroes. Hannah Arendt points out that nobody is as obsessive about their Jewish identity as those that seek to abandon it. So Jack, why not tell me what you think defines a Jew or is it an amorphous identity that can be adopted or discarded when suitable. Please enlighten me. Maybe I can be convinced. But indignation alone based on emotional fulminations is not an argument.
Despite the valiant efforts of some good Jews attempting to do so here, I see no point in debating anti-Semites, where or not they claim to be "Jews". They are not to be reasoned with. They are and will remain Jew-haters.
However, American Jews may look to "Jewish" publications for information, and that is worth dealing with, since they risk being mislead by the extremely anti-Israel "Jewish" Forward. The Forward has clearly shown itself to be an extremist organization, engaged in a far-left "progressive" propaganda war against Israel, and attempting to damage and splinter American Jews' support for the Jewish State of Israel.
One of many examples is this "story", cut from whole cloth, and concocted from nothing more than a single alleged private comment, printed without a named source in the anti-Israel Ha'aretz, and in any event denied by Netanyahu's spokesman. That's it! And Nathan Guttman, who writes one anti-Israel story after another, creates a whole sob story, about an imagined "long tradition" of poor anti-Israel Jewish politicians being verbally maligned, from which they still "carry scars". The poor victimizers are really the "victims"! This is a "news" story? No, its just more outlandishly puerile propaganda!
Now, here's an important story that the Forward will not report: American "Democratic" Jews - who voted for Obama - disagree with how he is treating Israel! And, further, despite the Forward's and J Street's wishful claims, American Jewish leaders are "pushing-back" - hard - against Obama (and his anti-Israel strategists, Emanuel and Axelrod):
A column today, in the WSJ, penned by the President of the World Jewish Congress:
.....
"MIDEAST PEACE STARTS WITH RESPECT
Note to Obama: The Palestinians still haven’t recognized the Jewish state.
By Ronald S. Lauder
More than one American president has tried to bring peace to the Middle East, and more than one has failed. So as the Obama administration outlines its own prospectus for a comprehensive settlement to Israel’s conflict with the Palestinians and the wider Arab world, it would do well to take note of some potential pitfalls.
Rule No. 1: Respect the sovereignty of democratic allies. When free people in a democracy express their preferences, the United States should respect their opinions. The current administration should not try to impose ideas on allies like Israel.
The administration would also do well to take heed of the Palestinian Authority’s continued refusal to recognize Israel as the nation-state of the Jewish people. This is not a trivial matter. A long-term settlement can only be forged on the basis of mutual recognition and respect. To deny the essence of the Zionist project—to rebuild the Jewish people’s ancient homeland—is to call into question the seriousness of one’s commitment to peace.
It is a sad statement of the Palestinians’ approach to peace-making that denial of the Jewish homeland is not simply contained in the openly anti-Semitic leadership of Hamas. It is a widespread belief across the spectrum of Palestinian opinion. This reality must be confronted.
Today’s leadership must never forget that the core historic reason for the conflict is the Arab world’s longstanding rejection of Israel’s existence. The two-state solution was accepted by Israel’s pre-state leadership led by David Ben-Gurion in 1947 when it agreed to the partition plan contained in United Nation’s General Assembly Resolution 181. The Arabs flatly rejected it. As Secretary of State Hillary Clinton knows all too well, President Bill Clinton’s peace plans in 2000 foundered due to Palestinian rejection of the Jewish state, even as Israel, once again, accepted their right to statehood.
More recent experience in Europe also offers lessons about the dangers of negotiating with terrorists. Over the past year, officials from Britain, France and the European Union all held talks with officials from the “political wing” of Hezbollah in a bid to get the terrorist group to moderate its behavior. Hezbollah is undoubtedly grateful for the legitimacy that these meetings have conferred, but it is not laying down its arms. Indeed, according to a recent report from the Times of London, the group has now stockpiled 40,000 rockets close to the Israeli border.
To be sure, we must have hope. Peace agreements with Egypt and Jordan are useful models. Nonetheless, the recent rebuffs by Jordan, Kuwait and Saudi Arabia of efforts by the Obama administration to promote a more conciliatory attitude to Israel offer a salient reminder that those who started this conflict may not yet be in a mood to end it, whatever their rhetoric to the contrary.
And then there are the settlements. Undoubtedly, this is a complex matter. Yet the administration must beware of overemphasizing it. Compromises between people of goodwill can be made on the settlements, as Israel has demonstrated in the recent past. But no compromise can be made on Israel’s right to exist inside secure borders unmolested by terrorist groups or threatened by belligerent states.
That’s why an unambiguous strategy explaining precisely how Hamas and Hezbollah can be disarmed and how Iran can be prevented from acquiring nuclear weapons is of central importance to any peace plan.
The administration must also be wary of letting Israel’s opponents use the settlement issue as a convenient excuse for failing to make moves of their own. The settlements matter, but they do not go to the core of this decades-old conflict.
Making peace in the Middle East is an unenviable task. It is also a noble calling. To be successful, it will require patience and fortitude. It will also require an ability to stand above the fray, to see the problems for what they are, and the courage to confront them at their source."
Mr. Lauder is president of the World Jewish Congress.
......
The vast majority of American Jews agree with Mr. Lauder.
Chaim, Chaim, read. Read what I wrote, then go back and read what you wrote.
I never wrote that you denied Jewishness to any denomination or defined any theological demarcation. I _did_ write —perhaps in a manner too subtle for you to pick up— that you shouldn’t waste your time and mine —and the FORWARD's bandwidth— with a belabored essay on Jewish identity when the purpose of that essay is to serve as a preamble and cover for you to reject other Jews merely because their politics disagree with yours. And you _did_ do that.
As far as your comparison of Trotsky, Kaganovich, et al. to Brandeis, Herzberg et al. goes, it is valid as model for Jewish behavior: we should strive to be like Hillel, Brandeis, Herzberg, etc., not the others. Being a Jew is a process. But, when you cast it as a Exemplary Jew-Evil Jew dichotomy it becomes an argument that has little validity for the vast majority of us Jews in the middle —in the middle of a continuum of righteousness to evil, in the middle of being Jewish. And when you equate association with President Obama with being a Bad Jew and describe the Democrat [sic] Party as a nest of anti-Semites without castigating the recent Bush administration and the Republican for similar associations with anti-Semitism, then you, Chaim, _are_ setting yourself up as the arbiter of Jewishness based on your political preferences.
Chaim, Chaim, read. Read what I wrote, then go back and read what you wrote.
I never wrote that you denied Jewishness to any denomination or defined any theological demarcation. I _did_ write —perhaps in a manner too subtle for you to pick up— that you shouldn’t waste your time and mine —and the FORWARD's bandwidth— with a belabored essay on Jewish identity when the purpose of that essay is to serve as a preamble and cover for you to reject other Jews merely because their politics disagree with yours. And you _did_ do that.
As far as your comparison of Trotsky, Kaganovich, et al. to Brandeis, Herzberg et al. goes, it is valid as model for Jewish behavior: we should strive to be like Hillel, Brandeis, Herzberg, etc., not the others. Being a Jew is a process. But, when you cast it as a Exemplary Jew-Evil Jew dichotomy it becomes an argument that has little validity for the vast majority of us Jews in the middle —in the middle of a continuum of righteousness to evil, in the middle of being Jewish. And when you equate association with President Obama with being a Bad Jew and describe the Democrat [sic] Party as a nest of anti-Semites without castigating the recent Bush administration and the Republican for similar associations with anti-Semitism, then you, Chaim, _are_ setting yourself up as the arbiter of Jewishness based on your political preferences.
Sorry about the double post. The FORWARD’s server was too fast for me the retract a “resend” generated when I returned to this page.
I must say that I am deeply touched by your commiseration for my "waste" of time and my waste of the Forwards bandwidth. Baal Tashchit is a serious concern of the Talmudic rabbis, But as far as my "waste" of your time. I regret that both my religious and political perspectives must reject the blame for it. Where I come from you are accountable for your own actions. You really don't own this page. Yet!
Very simply. Why are Hillel, Brandeis, Herzberg, etc. , "not the others" good Jewish role models and Trotsky, Kaganovich, the Rosenbergs not good Jewish models? May I know what your criteria are? Trotsky, Kaganovich and the Rosenbergs certainly believed that they were committed to social justice. What Jewish values determine a committed Jew? Obviously your repudiation of Kaganonovitch, Trotsky indicates that being Jewish is something other rhan just being ethnic. I just want to know what standard you use to make your arguments. Is that not a valid request. What is the defining element? Do Christians, Buddhists, Muslims, Bahai's, Jains etc. who strive for social justice qualify as Jews? Or is it only ethnicity that defines a Jew? Is there anything particular to being a Jew? Does it mean anything unique at all? It is obvious that I'm dim witted, because I keep asking the same question. The closest that I've gotten to an answer from you is that quote "Being a Jew is a process." End of quote.I apologize that I'm so stupid that I cannot comprehend what that means. I would be delighted if you would offer some elucidation to this simpleton. In addition, I would be thrilled if you could explain to me how a commitment to a meaningful Jewish education,standing with the Jewish people in times of adversity, seeking the continuity of a Jewish future, participating in the well being of particularly Jewish institutions ( not incompatible with participating with universal institutions) have anything to do with being a Democrat or a Republican. A liberal or a conservative? These behaviors transcend political affiliation and denominations.
I really don't understand the admiration that many liberal Jews have for Hillel. I know the convert on one leg story makes him very popular, but most people don't understand the context. But in the matter of Shmittah, the Sabbatical year, the Torah requires that all debts outstanding be abrogated,with the intent of eliminating debtor poverty ( I guess sorta like Obama and the mortgage modification program). The Torah is so serious about this that it warns "Be very careful lest there be in your heart an evil thing, saying,"The seventh year is approaching, the Sabbatical Year," [lest] your eye be bad towards your brother [who is] poor, and you will not lend to him -- and this will be a sin for you. (Devarim 15:9)". Clear enough ? Along comes Hillel, this Pharisee (Pharisees are not beloved by the authors of the Christian Bible)and puts the kibosh on this lovely progressive Torah idea. Hillel comes up with this idea called Pruzbul. This is a document that the creditor can require the debtor to sign prior to Shmittah, assigning the debt to the Bet Din, who now owns the debt and is entitled to distribute the debt money to the original creditor on collection. On the surface and to the unschooled eye, isn't Hillel doing an awful thing thwarting the Torah's desire to prevent long term debt which is a prime cause in creating poverty? To my eye, this should make Hillel an anti-progressive and not deserving of his popularity among liberal Jewish ad( BTW Hillel's motivation would be very similar to those opposed to loan modification) Also, Rabbi Arthur Herzberg in his autobiography makes the following statement: Quote " Assimilating Jews are amateur gentiles" End quote. Is Rabbi Herzberg also not placing his imprimateur on who is and who is not an authentic Jew?
One should never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity, but in your case, Chaim, I am becoming convinced it is malice. In your arguments you have willfully ignored what I have written or intentionally misrepresented it.
You have used your discourse into the essentials of being a Jew as a tool to rail against the Democrats, the Obama administration and the Jews who serve within it, while giving the Republicans a pass. Since you apparently missed it the first time around, let me quote myself:
”And when you equate association with President Obama with being a Bad Jew and describe the Democrat [sic] Party as a nest of anti-Semites without castigating the recent Bush administration and the Republicans for similar associations with anti-Semitism, then you, Chaim, _are_ setting yourself up as the arbiter of Jewishness based on your political preferences.”
To put it simply, you are guilty of using Judaism to further a political agenda.
Rabbi Hertzberg —I assume that is who you meant, Chaim— is an odd choice to quote, given your apparent philosophical bent. Wherever I’ve read Hertzberg refer to “amateur gentiles,” it has always been in the context of the larger American society rejecting assimilated Jews as poseurs, i.e. inauthentic gentiles.
I am curious, Chaim, in your source did Hertzberg name names?
Jack- I'm still waiting for a response. What defines a Jew besides ethnicity? My motivations are irrelevant to the issue. Is there a co-relationship between what kind of Jews support what kind of political agendas ? And does this inform us about the nature of commitment to the future of the Jewish people and politics? What is the relationship between the various segments of the Jewish Community and their politics? Can anything useful be extrapolated from this information? Just like synagogue membership, camps, the depth and length of Jewish education are used as predicators for Jewish connectivity, I think the same applies to politics. It is unfortunate that an individual of your intellectual refinement finds this disturbing and leads you to the use terms like "stupidity" in the course of a political / Jewish discussion instead of confronting the issue. Castigation of my short comings doesn't mean that the point I raised is not valid. Hertzberg does not name names in reference to this quote, but he does name public officials with whom he finds flaws in other contexts. He also makes a very negative comment about the lifestyle of wealthy Jews in Memphis and does specify at who's home this event takes place. I can't remember if he names anyone other than his host.Shabbat shalom or Gut Shabbos. I don't seek to offend.
Jack- Yes. Yes. You got me. I meant Hertzberg, not Herzberg, You can now say "Gotcha". While I may not agree with all of Rabbi Hertzberg's politics, I did find that he valued Torah scholarship, was not an Am Ha'aretz, devoted his life to the future of the Jewish people and defined his life in terms of Jewish commitment and believed that he had the sources to guide him in his path. Many, many Jews have no use for the Hertzberg model or Heschel model and have no interest in exploring their choices. Reasonable people can disagree reasonably, but when the stakes are Jewish survival, not just Israel's survival, it becomes important to ask "What does it mean when you say I am a Jew and I support this or that". Should J Street or Aipac be accorded a pass when they proclaim their Jewishness as the validation of the position they take. I think how Jewish is Jewish is a legitimate question, when you are using that designation to justify and reinforce your position. Is your support of an issue rooted in Jewish values- demonstrate, cite source or is merely a cloak for whatever you agree with at this juncture?
How long before Frank's blood pressure gets the best of him and his head explodes? Shall we start a betting pool?
How long before Frank's blood pressure gets the best of him and his head explodes? Shall we start a betting pool?
Chaim, your question “What defines a Jew besides ethnicity?” is nowhere as simple as you imply, not so much that our views of yidishkayt differ, but rather our views of ethnicity are vastly different. Ethnicity is a complex and fluid concept that includes ancestry, language, religion, culture, nationality, but is by no means limited by these descriptors. Given the Jews long and varied history, perhaps our ethnicity is even more complicated than other peoples. It is possible that your question cannot be answered satisfactorily, and certainly not adequately in this forum, but I will try. In the interest of brevity, the answer is going to be very zen, so pay attention:
A Jew is defined by being a Jew.
That answer is neither a cop-out or a joke. If you don’t understand the implications inherent in that answer, I am not the one to teach you.
Regarding my use of “stupidity": Chaim, you claimed being stupid first. I wrote: “One should never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity.” This is Hanlon’s Razor, a restatement of Murphy’s Law that has been attributed to Robert J. Hanlon, but earlier versions of it can be found in Goethe and Heinlein —I suspect that Hillel prob’ly had a version of it as well. The point of Hanlon’s Razor is that most of what is wrong with the world is caused by stupidity, not malice. However, I continued that I suspect in your case Chaim, you are being malicious not stupid, because you have consistently ignored what I have plainly written or intentionally misrepresented it. Calling into question my use of “stupidity” is a case in point.
My question whether Rabbi Hertzberg named names in reference to assimilated Jews was meant to point that he _never_ wrote that Mr. X was an inauthentic Jew for trying to assimilate into Gentile America [actually, Hertzberg’s point about assimilation was that Jews can never fully assimilate, because to Gentile America we remain “amateurs”]. Hertzberg also never wrote that Mr. Y of Memphis ceased being a Jew because of his lifestyle, or that Alderman Z was an inauthentic Jew because of influence peddling [or whatever his sin]. Likewise, Rabbi Hertzberg would not countenance calling into question the Jewishness of Rahm Emanuel, David Axelrod, or anybody else.
Chaim, your motivations are indeed relevant to the issue defining Jewishness. When you question the Jewishness of certain Democrats without applying to same critical view to the Republicans, your motivation is suspect. Do you support a particular policy because it fits an a priori definition of Jewish values, and by extension so do its advocates, or do you work backwards and define a particular policy as “good for the Jews” — and by extension, its advocates— because you support that policy? Or, do you support a particular policy because being Jew _compels_ you to?
Your question “Is your support of an issue rooted in Jewish values- demonstrate, cite source or is merely a cloak for whatever you agree with at this juncture?” teeters at the edge of irony, Chaim. When one pares away your discussion of what defines Jewishness, all that is left is partisan rhetoric.
chaim klein wrote:
"So what happened in the 1930's. Did Jews also run children over with bulldozers. Aha! It was the failure of Jews to protest the fact that Jews ran children over with bulldozers that caused the Holocaust and convinced your idol, Franklin Roosevelt to refrain from allowing Jews to immigrate to the USA in face of the Hitler threat. Yet your ilk worships this man that has so much blood on his hands. What about the 1800's in Russia and France ? What did the Jews do to engender the Dreyfus Case and the bloody reign of the czars." ____________
Chaim,
With all due respect, it is not the 1930s any more. There was no Jewish state in the 1930s. We all agree that it is a good thing to have a Jewish state where persecuted Jews can find refuge. The question today is how to best preserve it in the face of a growing demographic problem and situate it for the long term future where hopefully it will prosper by trading in peace with its neighbors.
There is incentive for the Arabs to make peace with Israel right now because both feel threatened by Iran and fundamental Islamists. The only thing holding it back is the Palestinian issue. It needs to be resolved soon in a manner that can be sold to the Arab street as just, and that resolves the demographic problem to the extent possible or at least postpones it. I think Rahm and Axelrod understand this.
I am sick and tired of the seemingly coordinated conspiracy to attack Iran. Iran has every right to pursue nuclear weapons. Any person that says that we should jump on Iran is just like a person who says it is better to shoot another person than to let that person have a gun for self-protection. It is the ultimate bullying, and anyone who says this needs to re-examine the idea of "justice". Israel has nuclear weapons, so why shouldn't Iran be allowed to have them? People in the USA should concentrate on designing even better weapons and better defensive deterrents rather than trying to bully other countries. Again, IRAN HAS EVERY RIGHT TO HAVE NUCLEAR WEAPONS. To say otherwise is to be a bully, and G-d usually lets bullies get humiliated for punishment. And, I know who is likely behind the street riots in Iran, and it is not the majority of Iranians...it is bullying troublemakers who are doing it to try to upset a legitimate government, in my opinion. Its funny, cause it didn't work and it shows that the bullies miscalculated and G-d didn't allow such bullying. Jesus was a person who taught us to to stand against the injustice that comes from bullying which is sometimes based on racial theories of life. The racists often make me want to pursue a racist view of life as well...just to compete with them. But, Jesus told us to "forgive them, for they know not what they do". I just hope I have the strength to be a brother to all rather than a bully. I'm still a warrior though, and will continue to fight injustice where I see it.
David- How far is it from the 1930's in Europe? I'm not talking about governments, necessarily, which to some extent have not yet succumbed to the Jew hatred that exists in England, Belgium, Spain, Greece and many other European countries ) but will as their Moslem populations enlarge ( See While Europe Slept by Bruce Bawr- a liberal author who is also gay and lived in Europe for 10 years before returning to the USA) . Have you read Walter Lacquer’s book The New Anti-Semitism ( Among other things he points out that 53,000 people have died in the Arab-Israel conflict while 11 million Arabs have died in inter Arab conflict) ? Are you familiar with the anti-Semitism extant in American classrooms and on campuses. Have you read Those Who Forget the Past: The Question of Anti-Semitism by Ron Rosenbaum, a book which describes through a series of articles the parallels between the 1930’s and now, with the most frightening epilogue by Cyhtia Ozick entitled The Modern Hep Hep. And as both Sinclai Lewis and Phillip Roth pointed out in novels – it can happen here. . Have you noticed that several liberals, with the courage to speak out, admit the presence of Jew hatred –sometimes disguised as Ianti-zionism ( not all people that are critical of Israel are anti-Semites; but all anti-Semites are critical of Israel ( There is a way of determining this; When Israel is singled out as it is at the UN, by the NYT, by the professariat as being apartheid which it’s not by any definition; its Arabs have more rights in Israel than in any other Arab state ; ditto its gays and women and yet these groups and many non-anti-Israel and non-anti-Semitic liberals are silent on matters like gay persecution, religious persecution, honour killing in Moslem countries. I have never seen Slate, Salon, WaPo, etc. ever write about the real apartheid that exist in Saudi Arabia- So when Israel gets singled out, that’s no anti-Semitism that’s anti-Semitism. Even assuming there is a demographic crisis ( I’m not an expert, I’d rather believe Caroline Glick than some lefty, that there is not and the numbers are cooked) I do not believe that any solution that presently exists is viable. Do you honestly believe that a Palestinian state, run by Hamas or the PLO would not permit Iran and its proxies to establish forces on the ground- an airport for military craft, a port for weapons transport. This is the option result of a Palestinian state that is wholly independent. Anything less, as envisioned by Netanyahu will not be acceptable. Why do you place so much credence in the goodness of man. There is very little evidence for this in history- humans don’t change. Even, Benny Morris has transformed from his original position and understands the hat not the one state, not the two state solution are viable. Israel cannot rely on the long term good will of Arab states who are even now, despite the "threat" from Iran not willing to make even the least miniscule movement toward normalization of relations with Israel. I know that many people are told look at the treaty with Egypt. It has stood for 30 years. Well, I fail to see the flow of Egyptian businessmen going to Israel, or tourists. I fail to see a cessation of anti-Semitic rhetoric in their newspapers, I fail to see how a Egyptian broadcast of a 41 part series of live version of the Protocols of the Elders of Zion fostering anti-Semitism ( this is state run media) or re-broadcasting TV series developed elsewhere depicting Sharon as a vampirical blood drinker will foster good will. Or reprinting state sanctioned articles by Saudi professors accusing Jews of killing Arab children for Hamantashen. (The blood is frozen, given to the rabbis who then make Hamantashen. Abbas has a Ph.D from Moscow University in Holocaust denial. He has stated that he will never recognize Israel as a Jewish state, although he does accept Saudi Arabia as a Moslem state. You see, I believe that the written Torah while not necessarily literally true is absolutely true. I can respect when people of other faith have a doctrine that I consider inimical to me and be opposed to the doctrine. For most Jews (and liberal Christians and others) the Torah is really not of particular significance. So they have a difficult time respecting the possibility that others may have it. This includes the Oral Torah and its other religion counterparts, such as the Hadith in Islam. Many liberals believe that people who believe in things like this are naïve and less than intelligent. They cannot conceive that people can have faith in concepts like Dar-al-Harb wherin land conquered by Moslems is obligated to stay Islamic ( Spain, Israel) and the rest of the world is destined by preaching and/or by violence to be under Shariah law. So how would I put my faith in such societies, which are permitted to co-operate with non-Islamic people for a common cause. This need not necessarily be about terrorism. It can be through jihad ( yeah I know about internal struggle interpretation). The fact is that Muslims believe as the Chosen People ( as are Christians, Jews, Shintos, Chinese and everybody else, only Jews are hated for expressing it: most Jews deny it and are uncomfortable with it- Read The Chosen by Avi Beker). As Amos Elon, one of the liberal world’s Israeli heroes said in, a moment of lucidity , around 2001/2 when speaking about Europe and the Middle East . He said that graffiti was appearing in Europe saying Juden Raus ) just like in Europe of the ‘30’s “They don’t want us here; they don’t want us there; they don’t want us anywhere.
Roger Cohen's wet dreams-see below First Expose of Iran's Seven Hellhole Prisons
DEBKAfile Exclusive Report
August 10, 2009
Doors which conceal horrors in Iran's political prisons Until the defeated Iranian presidential contender Mehdi Karroubi broke the wall of silence surrounding the Islamic Republic's prisons to demand an investigation into allegations of rape, little attention was paid to the abuses meted out to protestors who dared to claim that the June 12 election was rigged.
These abuses are inflicted routinely and systematically in seven secret prisons where political detainees are held at the behest of the revolutionary Islamic regime. Those prisons are described DEBKAfile's Iranian sources as inhuman hellholes:
Kahrizak
This is the jail which supreme leader Ayatallah Ali Khamenei wanted razed to the ground to conceal the outrages committed there against scores of reform-seeking protesters who had the cruel fortune to be dumped there. Kahrizak on the southern outskirts of Tehran was notorious as the penal facility for Iran's most violent thugs and gangsters. Those inmates were let loose on the political prisoners who were incarcerated in cells ten meters square. An unknown number suffered rape and bloody beatings, which not all survived.
The commander of Iran's internal security forces Esmail Ahmadi-Moghaddam said Sunday, Aug. 9, that he would not deny his share in the blame for the "terrible things that took place in Kahrizak" where two protesters were admittedly found dead. He claimed that two of the security officials responsible for "widespread prisoner abuse" had been fired and awaited trial.
The prison remains open and our sources doubt those responsible for the outrages will be brought to trial.
Six more jails and detentions centers operate in the Tehran area.
Ghamar prison
A low, inconspicuous door behind the Ghamar Bani Hashem Hospital on Resaalat Street near the security ministry leads into a top-secret holding facility for interrogating political prisoners. It is closely guarded by Iran's intelligence ministry.
It has two floors and a yard, containing four interrogation rooms, eight isolation cells and eight holding cells in which dozens of detainees are crammed, allowed access to showers once a week and toilets three times a day . Here, the detainees undergo their first inquisition and beatings before they are transferred to other prisons. Their eyes and mouths are bound with leather straps to prevent them from identifying their tormentors. Their agony ends when they sign written confessions.
Most of the victims' families do not know their whereabouts.
Esharat-Abad prison
Several hundred political prisoners are crowded into this facility for drug offenders which is designed for 250 to 350 inmates. It is situated in the Narcotic Unit's headquarters in central Tehran.
The building consists of three large units broken up into cells of 1.5 x 2 meters, into each of which up to five detainees are squeezed for an agonizing three to seven days. Under interrogation, their arms and legs are broken to make them confess and give up information. Accustomed to beating and humiliating dope traffickers, the wardens carry on abusing the political detainees.
Sanitary conditions are appalling and the inmates are fed scraps from the prison staff canteens. The stench of vomit and sweat in the unventilated cells is unbearable. Whenever a detainee dies of torture or disease, prison authorities file a fictitious report. After the questioning finishes, those who survive are transferred to the central prison at Evin. No one has been brought to book for their deaths.
The Revolutionary Guards Prison 59
This penal complex in the cellar of the Revolutionary Guards Corps base Esharat-Abad suburb of Tehran is the most terrible of all seven secret jails. It is so secret that even the head of the justice department for the Tehran district has never been granted permission for a visit.
Run by the field security unit of the IRGC, this is where suspected spies and people accused of grave security offenses are questioned by officials who are not bound by any laws or regulations. They have sole discretion to determine the degree of abuse their victims deserve.
Most of the cells are made for solitary confinement, although around ten large chambers hold a number of detainees. None have light or ventilation; sanitary conditions are appalling and food scanty. Detainees are allowed one telephone call during the period of their detention subject to permission from the security guards, which means depending on how well they cooperate.
Inmates are completely cut off from the outside world so that when it is important for the regime to extract confessions to crimes they never committed, they are susceptible to psychological manipulation, such as fake newspaper front pages or fabricated news bulletins.
These detainees may disappear into this top-secret prison for long stretches of time of up to a year or two without their families knowing where they are.
Nabovvat
This detention center on Schrevardi street in central Tehran is shared by the intelligence ministry and Revolutionary Guards. It is located on the top floors of a shopping center and hidden behind a secret door. It is used for political detainees whose incarceration is too secret for them to be held in other prisons. For many it is also the end of the line for few survive the questioning practices at this place
Abu Ghoraib prison
This jail administered by the internal security services, named for the notorious American prison in Iraq, is located on Seoul Street in the Fatemieh suburb of Tehran, a residential district where few are aware that Abu Ghoraib is used to torture security personnel accused of grave offences or crimes against the regime. Prison No. 66
This jail is also run by the Revolutionary Guards behind the Allameh Tabatabai military base on the Asfarieh highway north of Tehran. Here former Guards members accused of serious offenses or subversion against the state are subjected to extreme torture. At least two inmates have died in recent weeks
Jack-I have read that some voices in the liberal Jewish world are turned off by the Purim and Channuka story. Channuka tells the story of how Hellenizing Jews ( it wasn’t enough for them to be Hellenists, every Jew must also become one) sought to impose Hellenism on all the Jews of Judea with the backing of the Seleucid government. Ultimately this led to a civil war. I don’t see why we are that far away from the Channukah story. Some Jews choose to have small if any family, choose not provide their children with anything other than a minimal Jewish education, marry very late or marry non-Jews thus diminishing and enervating the next generation. Daniel Gordis wrote a book called Does the World Need Jews? His answer is affirmative, but says that Jews can best serve humanity by maintaining their uniqueness. This is not done by being born a Jews and practicing Tikkun Olam. I believe that Hertzberg was making the same point that by assimilating ( which unlike being a Jew can be a “ process “; you can be at different places on the continuum. And as the story of Chanukka told there were “moderate” Hellenizers who were somewhere on the continuum but ultimately cast their fate with the anti-Hellenizers and joined the traditional Jews in there battle against the “extreme” Hellenizers. It may be my “malice” that drives me to make, what I am certain arguments that you would consider invidious. I make no apology. I believe that some people are entitled to be respected for their ideas. I believe that some people are to be respected despite their ideas. Finally, I believe that some people do not deserve respect because of their ideas. In a pluralistic enivronment, I must concede that every person has the right to be wrong. Many liberals do not acknowledge this right. I have the right to speak out against those people that I see as harmful to humanity and to the Jewish people. I know my history. I know the harm that has been done to the Jewish people by Jews, who despite their good intentions , have contributed to a weakening of the Jewish body politic in their ignorance of Torah, in their fear of being targeted by non-Jews and by the desire for acceptance. Some of these are human motives. All motives are driven by the desire to do good as understood by self-perception. I find that Jews that whole heartedly support a man who has the historical associations that Obama has, who support a man who offers Medals of Freedom to Bishop Desmond Tutu and Mary Robinson. individuals who despise the USA and who have played significant roles in propogating hatred of Israel / Jews something that is linked in the common mind . A man who seeks to restore to power Zelaya, who tried to undermine the constitution of his country, Honduras and who seks to emulate Chaves, a dictator, an enemy of the USA, a foe to Israel and an anti-Semite to the Jews of the country he rules. A man whom Obama warmly embraced. ( Yes Bush started of stupid with Putin, are you happy now? I criticized Bush. Just like Michael Savage who loathed the Republicans as well.) Here’s the reality. The Jews with the weakest existential connection to Jewishness support one vision of society ( 75% of Jews vote Democrat)- gay marriage, abortion on demand, no state aid for schools ( It was a Jew with came out with the interpretation of State and Church as an absolute; as opposed to the possibility of some accommodation between the two. BTW in Canada 9 of 10 provinces pay the shot for secular studies in private religious schools of all denominations ( not establishing a Church) Some of those Jews are like the moderate Hellenizers or are Independents (I wish I had a number) and some Chareidi groups who will go where the entitlement money is. On the other hand, many of the Jews who are existentially most committed to Jewishness (25% of Jews no longer vote for Democrats). Some belong to the “Moderate” Hellenizers and others are also independents. It seems that you consider it outrageous that I find a co-relationship between the two. The present Democrat power structure consist of many lifestyle libertines , which the last time I checked was not a Jewish value. Certainly, many Republicans ( and for that fact Jews who are existentially committed to Jewishness ) abound in Republican party and its supporters. Their failure to live up to their beliefs is a human failing ; it is not a default position. With the Democrats, even though there may be many who decry libertinism, they must support it. The Talmud says that a mitzvah that came about as the result of a sin isn’t a mitzvah. The Talmudic rabbis make a distinction between private and public behaviour. It does not sanction inappropriate behavior but it recognizes human fallibility. The means are not justified by the ends is not a principal in halachik Jewish thought. Creating an atmosphere that demands personal responsibility ( which some left professor on NPR said last Friday could be code words for racism) is Jewish principal. It is the obligation of the individual, not the government, to ensure that the poor be sustained, that the vulnerable be protected. It is not the job of the government because by turning it over to the government one loses sight of their own responsibility. Please read Who Really Cares by Arthur Brooks , who demonstrates statistically that the single greatest predicator of charitable giving , volunteering and caring about your fellow are those that are formally connected to their faith ( Moslem, Hindu, Jain, Jew, Buddhist. It doesn’t matter which). Undermining the Jewish polity is a loss for mankind. Being a “light onto the nations” requires being differentiated from the nations, which is fundamentally the meaning of “am kadosh’. ( A Holy nation, which involves rules governing food an sexuality). Rabbi Yoffie, the Rabbinic head of the Reform movement, made, in the mid 90’s, the famous Torah! Torah! Torah! Speech in which he said if Jews don’t start studying Torah they’ll be gone in a reasonably short time. History tells me that every movement that has failed to make Written and Oral Torah important to their lives are gone or miniscule (Like the Samaritans who aren’t considered Jewish anymore by virtually everyone. Goodbye extreme Hellenizers. Goodbye Sadducees. Goodbye Essenes ( no pru urvu). Goodbye Karaites. Goodbye Yiddishists. Goodbye Cultural Jews who thought that if only they could write poetry, drama and other highly elevated aesthetic Jewish works, they would be accepted. Goodbye Das Wissenschaft dem Judentams ( Judaism as civilization. All the founders of the movement converted to Christianity. I don’t have numbers for this but how many 5th generation Reform Jews are there ( please let me know, anybody ?) With an intermarriage rate of 50% plus rising to 75% among the children of inter-marrieds, a child bearing rate of 1.6 by non-synagogue attenders (1990. I suspect it’s even lower now) it takes 2.1 to maintain population stability. Where’s the future? Will my silence encourage people to stop these behaviors ? Obviously, Jack, you are a highly educated man with lots of book learning. Do you think that these trends have no significance in relationship to political affiliation ? One last point. The Talmudic rabbis wondered about the attraction to paganism / idol worship to Jews. What was so special about it. I mean Aristotle, Plato and Socrates all recognized the fallaciousness of idol worship . So what attracted the Jews to it. Idol worship continues to this day. It takes different forms; some of them secular, some of them political-liberalism, fascism, communism, socialism. Some of the personal- Evan Thomas “Obama is like god” . Celebrity worship. Money. Work. Materialism. A cornucopia of deities. And Jews are attracted to them , often with zeal. Alinsky. Trotsky. Emmanuel. Axelrod. J Street. Soros. Lake. (Many, many Jews would love for people like me to stop embarrassing them and shut up. Would wish that the Chareidim would disappear because they embarrass them ( just like the civilized German Jews in the 19th century felt about the uncouth Russian immigrants) The rabbis postulated that since many of the Middle Eastern idolatry cults had licentiousness attached to it, idol worship was a means to an end. Today, it’s a justification to do your own thing. As Arlo Guthrie put it ” You can have anything you want at Alice’s Restaurant. “ “ A Jew is defined by being a Jew”. Sorry. As Bill Clinton would have said: “It depends on what being is”. There must be some objective criteria. Do words have meaning? Or do they mean what we want them to mean ? People may have their own definitions for words. And some words may be relative soft/ hard, weak/ strong and hot /cold. Is Jew included ? Jew / Gentile?
Wow, Chaim, that’s a lot of words to say very little. Mebbe proofreading would help.
You equate “process” and “continuum,” something I never even implied. This could be a misunderstanding on your part, but as it provides a straw man to knock down, I suspect your misinterpretation is not so innocent.
If being a Jew is not a process, then why study Torah? Surely Torah study is part of the process of being a Jew? To suggest otherwise means that a Jew is imbued with perfect —and stagnant— knowledge of Torah.
Your historical view of Jewish sectarianism contradicts your promotion of the Maccabee Rebellion: The Sadducees were the party of the Hasmonean priest-kings, as such, the Maccabee rejection of Hellenism did little to contribute to Jewish continuity. On the other hand, there is a possibility that after the Second Temple, surviving Sadducees became Karaim, which refutes your argument from the other direction.
Asking about fifth generation Reform Jews is disingenuous, Chaim. While the Reform movement predates the 1870s, it was during this decade that Reform emerged as a distinct movement in the US. 1870 is scarcely five generations in the past. The peak of Jewish immigration to the US was even more recent. Nevertheless, here in Texas I know several Reform families whose fifth [or sixth] generation is nearing b’nai mitzvah.
Tossing G. W. Bush under the bus hardly establishes your non-partisan credentials, Chaim. In regard to the article to which these comments are appended, does Bush matter? I didn’t know he was Jewish. And during the last elections, McCain and the other GOP candidates distanced themselves from their then Commander-in-Chief. Even here in red-state Texas, communities are clarifying that they’ve named streets after Bush 41 and not Bush 43 [http://www.theeagle.com/local/CS-approves-resolution-clarifying-namesake-of-George-Bush-Drive].
Even if trashing Georgele had given you credentials as an unbiased commentator, you lost it by accusing American Jewish liberals with idolatry. Can’t you find any bad Jewish conservatives, Chaim? How about Robert Novak? Surely there must have been some Jewish conservatives who were trying to convince the rest of us that it was good for Israel and good for American Jews to hitch our political fortunes to the party that was also courting ee-vangelical Christians, ee-vangelical Christians whose love for Israel is tied to converting the Jews and using Israel as the battleground for their End Time endgame.
Remember, Chaim, just because you cry out in the wilderness doesn’t make you a prophet.
The problem with American policy towards Israel is that it refuses to consider alternatives to "land for peace."
Not a single high-ranking administration official has met with the settlers or toured the settlements. These officials meet with Egyptians, Syrians, and Palestinians, but not Jewish settlers. So is it any surprise why Jewish settlers are so angry?
And the fact that so many Jewish settlers carry US citizenship, but are not represented by their government, also speaks volumes.
"Norman Fri. Aug 7, 2009If anyone is tempted to take Frank seriously, consider that, for all his super-Zionist talk, he hasn't moved to Israel himself" -------------------------------------------------------------------
So Norman, If Turkey tommorrow attacks Greece should all the Greeks in America move back to Greece so their opinion is legit ?
I could mention the countless 100s of nationalitys as an example but your logic is beyond stupidity.
I love jews
The thing I love about jews is their education level. They are thinking people. They are smart. Jews get educations. Jews mostly take both sides of an argument to be on the winning side. Aren't Jews really Hebrews, Hebrewish, practicing Hebrewism, to survive? Hebrews are just like everyone else, only more so. Hebrews are the most metaphorical example of the Western world ego. The Western world ego is often self hating and self persecuting. It is difficult to be so far away from God, so far away from the Universe, as an ego, a separate sense of self.
Hebrews are the Universe, arisen to self awareness, in a permanent state of transformation, seeking to know itself. The Hebrews are the Western world ego seeking language, education, money, sex, power, fame, and tribal glory, trying to be successful to survive. Hebrews are persecuted when they are successful at taking more rewards, awards, and media time than their numbers in the population justify. In this sense, Hebrews provoke their own persecution. Thus, the self hating Jew, who is really a Hebrew, who is really a Zionist, who is really an Israeli, who is really isolated, and alone. provokes their own persecution. It's tough to be a survivor, a winner, and a tribe that provokes it's own self persecution by being successful. What to do? Maybe it's time for Hebrew affirmative action to help Hebrews integrate the way white Christian males have been forced to integrate. We could bus Africans and Muslims to Israel as part of an affirmative action program. It's just a thought.
I love jews
Jack Godman
I love every one in all nations, I just don't like them all!
All the name calling, A Klog hot dir gelrofen! A sof! A sof!
One side is not better than the other, one sin is not greater than another....All sin leads us all...to death. A chazer bleit a chazer, a pig remains a pig, unclean.