Forward.com

How does "the response necessitated by Hamas terrorists' attacks" justify an IDF tank soldier killing the 2-year-old and 7-year-old Rabbo children, while their grandmother was holding a white flag? http://www.hrw.org/node/85113

Under what rules of warfare, even against terrorists, is it acceptable to kill 3- and 9-year old children?

http://www2.ohchr.org/english/bodies/hrcouncil/specialsession/9/docs/UNFFMGC_Report.pdf

770. In the late morning of 7 January 2009, Israeli tanks moved onto the small piece of agricultural land in front of the house. Shortly after 12.30 p.m., the inhabitants of that part of Izbat Abd Rabbo heard megaphone messages telling all residents to leave. According to one witness’s recollection, there had also been a radio message broadcast by the Israeli armed forces around 12.30 announcing that there would be a temporary cessation of shooting between 1 and 4 p.m. that day, during which time residents of the area were asked to walk to central Jabaliyah.

771. At about 12.50 p.m., Khalid Abd Rabbo, his wife Kawthar, their three daughters, Souad (aged 9), Samar (aged 5) and Amal (aged 3), and his mother, Hajja Souad Abd Rabbo, stepped out of the house, all of them carrying white flags. Less than 10 metres from the door was a tank, turned towards their house. Two soldiers were sitting on top of it having a snack (one was eating chips, the other chocolate, according to one of the witnesses). The family stood still, waiting for orders from the soldiers as to what they should do, but none was given. Without warning, a third soldier emerged from inside the tank and started shooting at the three girls and then also at their grandmother. Several bullets hit Souad in the chest, Amal in the stomach and Samar in the back. Hajja Souad was hit in the lower back and in the left arm.

"The Jewish Fast for Gaza was founded in July 2009 to break the silence in the Jewish community over the humanitarian crisis in Gaza, to end the Israel’s ongoing blockade, and to call for direct negotiations between Israel and all Palestinian parties, including Hamas, towards a negotiated peace settlement."

Michael Levin these so called Rabbis are a bunch of self hating appeasers. They are worse than the Judenrat under the Nazis because they have no skin in the gruesome events.

They will not be harmed if they turned out to be wrong.

They are a bunch of narcissists playing with the lives of others.

Jewish Voice for Peace Responds to the Goldstone Report:

[Excerpt] "JVP supports the Goldstone Report recommendations as well as the overall thrust of the document.

JVP believes it is a well-researched, fair-minded report. It accuses both Israel and Hamas of war crimes and possible crimes against humanity, while rightfully placing greater emphasis on Israeli violations of international law, especially regarding the killing of civilians.

Further, it confirms numerous previously published reports by highly regarded organizations including: • Amnesty International • B’tselem • Breaking the Silence, whose report is comprised of testimonies of Israeli soldiers who participated in the operation • Human Rights Watch • Physicians for Human Rights

[ . . . . ] JVP strongly urges that the Goldstone Report findings be taken with all the serious consideration it merits, and that its recommendations be implemented.

http://www.jewishvoiceforpeace.org/publish/article_1216.shtml

This is the best article on the Goldstone report anywhere:

"The Goldstone Illusion What the U.N. report gets wrong about Gaza--and war." By Moshe Halbertal

http://www.tnr.com/article/world/the-goldstone-illusion

Michael Levin "Jewish Voice for Peace Responds to the Goldstone Report"

Of course they would, the group is neither Jewish nor are they for peace. Their aim is to eliminate the Jewish State.

All legitimate Jewish groups have condemned the report.

Statement endorsed by over a hundred groups including the Israeli Committee Against House Demolitions, American Jews for a Just Peace, The Arab Jewish Partnership for Peace and Justice in the Middle East, and Tikkun magazine [excerpt]:

"The following organizations are writing to you to express their strong support for the recommendations of the UN Fact Finding Mission on the Gaza Conflict contained in the Goldstone Report and strongly urge the United States to endorse these recommendations when they are voted on in the UN Human Rights Council on September 29.

Earlier this month, the United States assumed a seat on the UN Human Rights Council for the first time. Upon assuming this seat, Dr. Esther Brimmer, Assistant Secretary of State, Bureau of International Organization Affairs, stated that “We can not pick and choose which of these [human] rights we embrace nor select who among us are entitled to them. We are all endowed at birth with the right to live in dignity, to follow our consciences and speak our minds without fear, to choose those who govern us, to hold our leaders accountable, and to enjoy equal justice under the law. These rights extend to all, and the United States can not accept that any among us would be condemned to live without them.”

We strongly agree with this statement and believe that the United States should put these words into action by voting to endorse the recommendations of the Goldstone Report."

http://www.endtheoccupation.org/article.php?id=2352

Response to Goldstone Report: Israel Must Investigate Cast Lead 15 Sep 2009

In response to the release today of the long-anticipated Goldstone report, nine Israelis human rights groups, including B’Tselem, have issued the following statement:

עברית אחרי האנגלית

Adalah * Association for Civil Rights in Israel * Bimkom * B’Tselem * Gisha * HaMoked * Physicians for Human Rights-Israel * The Public Committee Against Torture in Israel * Yesh Din

Human Rights groups in Israel provide initial response to Goldstone Report: Israel Must Investigate ‘Operation Cast Lead’

With the publication of the Goldstone Committee report today, human rights organizations in Israel are studying the report and its conclusions, and they call upon the Israeli Government to take the report seriously and to refrain from automatically rejecting its findings or denying its legitimacy.

Already it is clear that the findings of the report – written after gathering extensive information and testimonies from Israeli and Palestinian victims – will join a long series of reports indicating that Israel’s actions during the fighting in Gaza, as well as the actions of Hamas, violated the laws of combat and human rights law.

Human rights organizations in Israel believe that the State of Israel must conduct an independent and impartial investigation into these suspicions and to cooperate with an international monitoring mechanism that would guarantee both the independence of that investigation and the implementation of its conclusions. The organizations have written to Israel’s Attorney General to demand that he establish such an independent body to investigate the military’s activities during “Cast Lead”, but he rejected their request.

The groups expect the Government of Israel to respond to the substance of the report’s findings and to desist from its current policy of casting doubt upon the credibility of anyone who does not adhere to the establishment’s narrative.

Organizations on this statement: Association for Civil Rights in Israel, Adalah, Bimkom, B’Tselem, Gisha, HaMoked, Physicians for Human Rights – Israel, The Public Committee Against Torture in Israel and Yesh Din

**********

במקום * בצלם * גישה * האגודה לזכויות האזרח בישראל * הועד הציבורי נגד עינויים בישראל * המוקד להגנת הפרט * יש דין * עדאלה * רופאים לזכויות אדם

דרושה חקירה ישראלית של “עופרת יצוקה”

עם פרסום דו”ח ועדת גולדסטון מודיעים ארגוני זכויות האדם בישראל כי הם לומדים את ממצאי הדו”ח ומסקנותיו, וקוראים לממשלת ישראל להתייחס לתוכן הדו”ח בכובד ראש ולא לשלול את ממצאיו והלגיטימיות שלו מלכתחילה.

כבר עתה ברור כי ממצאי הדו”ח, שנכתב לאחר איסוף מידע וגביית עדויות מנפגעים פלסטיניים וישראליים, מצטרפים לשורה ארוכה של דיווחים המצביעים על כך שפעולות ישראל במהלך הלחימה ברצועת עזה, כמו גם של חמאס, הפרו את דיני הלחימה ודיני זכויות האדם. ארגוני זכויות האדם בישראל סבורים כי על מדינת ישראל לקיים חקירה עצמאית ובלתי תלויה לבירור חשדות אלו ולשתף פעולה עם מנגנון ניטור בינלאומי שיבטיח את עצמאותה של החקירה ואת יישום מסקנותיה. הארגונים פנו ליועץ המשפטי לממשלה בדרישה להקים גוף עצמאי שיחקור את פעולות הצבא במהלך “עופרת יצוקה”, אולם דרישה זו נדחתה על ידו. הארגונים מצפים מישראל כי תגיב בצורה עניינית לממצאי הדו”ח ושתשנה את מדיניותה להטיל דופי בכל מי שלא מיישר קו עם הגרסה הממסדית.

I met Halbertal at a lecture. He couldn't answer then, and he can't answer now:

Under what rules of warfare, even against terrorists, is it acceptable to kill 3- and 9-year old children?

http://www2.ohchr.org/english/bodies/hrcouncil/specialsession/9/docs/UNFFMGC_Report.pdf

Goldstone is a liar:

"Whereas clause #3: “Whereas the mandate of the `fact-finding mission’ makes no mention of the relentless rocket and mortar attacks, which numbered in the thousands and spanned a period of eight years, by Hamas and other violent militant groups in Gaza against civilian targets in Israel, that necessitated Israel’s defensive measures;

[Goldstone:] “2. Paragraph 4: This is factually incorrect. Chapter XXIV of the Report considers in detail the relentless rocket attacks from Gaza on Israel and the terror it caused to the people living within their range. The finding is made that they constituted serious war crimes and possibly crimes against humanity.”

[Berman Response]: Paragraph 4 [Whereas #3] of H.Res.867 is addressing the mandate, not the Report. It reads as follows: “Whereas the mandate of the ‘‘fact-finding mission’’ makes no mention of the relentless rocket and mortar attacks, which numbered in the thousands and spanned a period of eight years, by Hamas and other violent militant groups in Gaza against civilian targets in Israel, that necessitated Israel’s defensive measures”. That statement is an accurate characterization of both the formal mandate, as passed by the UNHRC, and of the broadened mandate requested by Justice Goldstone."

http://www.theaugeanstables.com/2009/11/05/fisking-goldstones-response-t...

There is only one important question about the Goldstone report:

Did IDF soldiers deliberately kill innocent Palestinian children?

The answer is yes, according to the Goldstone report, B'Tselem, and many journalists and others who have also investigated the charges. Even the Israeli government has acknowledged this in its own internal reports.

All these other arguments and personal attacks are irrelevant.

There are two kinds of Jews: Those who defend the killing of innocent children, and those who oppose it.

Which kind of Jew are you?

“HRW’s Founder denounces the organization’s obsession with Israel”

“Robert L. Bernstein, the former president and chief executive of Random House, was the chairman of Human Rights Watch from 1978 to 1998. Here, on the op-ed pages of the NYT he comes out on the side of HRW’s nemesis, NGO Monitor. This is big, very big.

Let’s see how HRW responds. They’ve always dismissed NGO Monitor and their other critics as over-zealous Zionists who object to any criticism of Israel. Now they’ve got big trouble and that line won’t work… which doesn’t mean they won’t try it.”

http://www.theaugeanstables.com/2009/10/20/hrws-founder-denounces-the-organizations-obsession-with-israel/

Notice how none of the critics of the Goldstone report can dismiss the facts:

IDF soldiers murdered Palestinian children.

Tuesday, October 20, 2009

"Islamic Jihad al-Quds Brigades endorses Goldstone The Sayara.ps al-Quds Brigades website praises the Goldstone Report and "the great efforts undertaken by the legal institutions and human rights organizations in rallying support" for the report.

Terrorists really seem to be enamored of this report and of the "human rights" organizations that have pushed it.

In the same website today is another article that stresses that terrorism ("resistance") is the only way to defeat Israel...."

http://elderofziyon.blogspot.com/2009/10/islamic-jihad-al-quds-brigades-endorses.html

There we go. The Goldstone report has good evidence that the IDF murdered Palestinian children.

Some Jews say it's wrong to murder Palestinian children.

Other Jews try to change the subject.

Who is Joe Stork of HRW?

He is, of course, the author of last week’s Human Rights Watch report, which claimed that IDF soldiers murdered white-flag-waving Palestinian civilians in cold blood. He is also the deputy director of HRW’s Middle East and North Africa programs. We already knew from NGO Monitor that he has—to put it politely—a rather extremist history on all matters Israel.

But now there is a better accounting. Ben-Dror Yemini of the Israeli newspaper Ma’ariv has a blockbuster article laying out the ugly truth of Stork’s history. The Hebrew is available here; below is a complete English translation. That HRW would place in a senior position someone who has written in explicit support of terrorism against Israel, lauded the murder of Israeli athletes at Munich in 1972 as providing “an important boost in morale among Palestinians,” and stated that “Zionism may be defeated only by fighting imperialism”—this should be the final verdict on a cretinous organization’s already tattered credibility.

AUTHOR OF REPORT AGAINST ISRAEL SUPPORTED MUNICH MASSACRE By Ben-Dror Yemini, Ma’ariv, 16.8.09, p. 13

[ARTICLE REMOVED - COPYRIGHT INFRINGEMENT]

According to multiple witnesses, and personal investigations of the site by Goldstone and BBC reporters, an IDF soldier shot the 3- and 9-year old Rabbo children dead without justification. Pollak said nothing about those facts.

You're simply cutting and pasting ad hominem attacks. They do not change those facts.

Norman "According to multiple witnesses, and personal investigations of the site by Goldstone and BBC reporters"

The BBC has been condemned by internal investigation which they dont' want to release to the public for bias in their Israel reporting.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/newsbysector/mediatechnologyandtelecoms/media/4591752/BBC-should-not-keep-Israeli-bias-report-secret-according-to-Lords.html

"BBC should not keep Israeli bias report secret according to Lords The BBC should publish an internal report into 'bias' claims regarding its coverage of the Middle East, according to a ruling made by the House of Lords"

btw: Who are these multiple witnesses? Hamas operatives? Show some independent corroboration of this story?

JEFF JACOBY

"At Brandeis, Israel's guilt and innocence on display"

By Jeff Jacoby, Globe Staff | November 7, 2009

"TO BRANDEIS University last night, South African jurist Richard Goldstone brought his international reputation as a legal scholar, a human rights advocate, and the former chief prosecutor of the United Nations tribunals for the former Yugoslavia and Rwanda. Dore Gold, Israel’s former ambassador to the UN, brought facts and figures, maps and photographs, and audio and video in English, Arabic, and Hebrew."

.....

"But Goldstone spent much of the time talking about himself - he recounted his dealings with the chairman of the UN Human Rights Council, his nightmares about being kidnapped by Hamas, his pleased discovery that ordinary Palestinians were “just like’’ ordinary Israelis - while his interlocutor focused relentlessly on facts and evidence. Gold played video of Israelis under Hamas rocket attack, and noted that such attacks had increased 500 percent after Israel’s withdrawal from the Gaza Strip. He displayed aerial photographs of Hamas military installations located amid schools and mosques. He described Israel’s extraordinary efforts to avoid civilian casualties, and showed Palestinian TV broadcasts confirming those efforts. He presented images of weapons caches inside Palestinian mosques and homes.

It was a powerful presentation - so powerful, in fact, that Goldstone regretted not having seen it earlier. “The sort of information shown to us by Ambassador Gold,’’ he said, “should have been shown to us during the [UN] investigation.’’

Yet to my mind, what was most striking of all was Goldstone’s inability to give a clear answer to an essential question: What should a law-abiding country do to defend itself against relentless terrorist attacks?"

Read the whole article here:

http://www.boston.com/bostonglobe/editorial_opinion/oped/articles/2009/11/07/at_brandeis_israels_guilt_and_innocence_on_display?mode=PF

I heard the debate live and I should say that Goldstone was right about one thing, Israel should have made a presentation before the Goldstone commission.

In staying away it gave the Jew haters a chance to condemn the Jewish State without answering them back.

The headline "Jew Groups Blast UN for Goldstone Report" is misleading in that it assumes this represents the nebulous Jewish community. As one respondent erroneously wrote: All legitimate Jewish groups have condemned the report. The membership of the said legitimate Jewish groups is small in comparison the majority of identified American Jews who keep arms length from Israel/Palestinian issues.

The interesting issue here is the burning yet impotent aggravation of "legitimate" Jews. Something is beginning to slip and they cannot control the situation. A mainstream formerly "legitimate" Jewish individual such as Goldstone has jettisoned Israeli self-righteous marketing for a self-critical message that resonates in the Tenach. I am not sure if the so-called legitimate Jews ever read the constant castigation of unethical Jewish behavior by an assortment of Jewish and Israelite prophets in a text deemed holy by some.

>Yet to my mind, what was most striking of all was Goldstone’s inability to give a clear answer to an essential question: What should a law-abiding country do to defend itself against relentless terrorist attacks?"

Hamas repeatedly held to a de facto cease-fire, and the Israelis regularly broke the cease-fire by killing Palestinians and provoking Hamas to resume firing rockets.

So the answer to Jacoby's question is: Stop killing Palestinians for a while. When you do that, they've stopped their attacks.

Zvuv,

I think you've hit the most important point.

Phyllis Bennis said: "The right wing and the settlement movement are on the defensive. They can no longer pretend to speak for all Jews." People never talked back before.

The next step, according to Bennis, is to demand more firmly that the settlements stop.