Why Tucker Carlson actually sat down with Nick Fuentes
The former Fox News host is seeking the assistance of Fuentes in turning the conservative movement against Israel
Nick Fuentes, pictured here in 2016, has built a large following young men who delight in his defense of white America and attacks on Jews and other minorities. Photo by William Edwards/AFP via Getty Images
By Arno Rosenfeld November 5, 2025
The uproar over Tucker Carlson’s decision to host Nick Fuentes, a notorious Holocaust denier and white nationalist, for a friendly chat on his popular online talk show last week focused on the need to maintain a firewall between mainstream conservatives and antisemites like Fuentes.
But Carlson sat down with Fuentes — who he’d previously called a “weird little gay kid” — out of recognition that the firewall is collapsing and a belief that conservatives like himself need to figure out how to harness the movement Fuentes represents to achieve their many shared political goals, including shifting America’s posture toward Israel.
For years, Fuentes has held court on daily livestreams for a dedicated audience of young men, sometimes called the Groyper Army, drawn to his obsessive focus on defending white America from immigrants, minorities and Jews, and his willingness to troll and agitate mainstream Republicans.
That dynamic made him anathema to GOP leaders and even to other influencers like Charlie Kirk, who supported many of the same political positions as Fuentes, but avoided his most inflammatory rhetoric about women and minorities (“Your body, my choice,” Fuentes famously posted online after the 2024 election). And yet Fuentes grew more popular, and, in the months before his murder, Kirk had started to adopt some of his talking points.
Carlson, meanwhile, has had one foot in the political wilderness since he was pushed out of his primetime slot on Fox News two years ago. He relaunched his show on X and, unmoored from any editorial oversight, began embracing various conspiracy theories — UFOs, false flag attacks, 9/11 trutherism. But he has also maintained a close relationship with President Donald Trump, and spoke during primetime at the Republican National Convention last year.
Carlson started to turn against Israel in the past year, a shift he has framed in isolationist terms but which coincided with his willingness to interview figures like Darryl Cooper, an amateur historian and Holocaust revisionist, and Candace Owens, who shares Fuentes’ open antipathy toward Jews.
Fuentes is already aligned with mainstream Republicans on immigration, but Carlson is seeking to enlist the Groyper Army in his uphill political project of turning the MAGA movement against Israel.
“I feel like going on about ‘the Jews’ helps” Israel’s supporters, he told Fuentes at one point in their conversation. He begged Fuentes not to judge people simply for being born Jewish — an incredibly narrow understanding of antisemitism — but even that was a struggle for the 27-year-old streamer, who repeatedly reaffirmed his most extreme views.
“As far as the Jews are concerned, you cannot actually divorce Israel and the neocons from Jewishness,” Fuentes said. He went on to expound on the theory that Jews are rootless cosmopolitans (“They’re unassimilatable”) and obsessed with their historic persecution such that they prioritize Israel’s interests (“We don’t think like that as Americans and white people”).
***
At several points, Carlson tried to push back and suggest that appeals to identity politics in the United States could only lead to division and even political violence, but this only prompted Fuentes to argue that “a big challenge” to social harmony is “organized Jewry in America.”
Crucially, Carlson never rebuked Fuentes. The disagreement over how much to blame “the Jews” was framed instead as an earnest difference of opinion between two figures working toward a shared goal of limited immigration and an isolationist foreign policy.
The pair eventually moved on to discuss pornography (“It seems like it’s making a lot of people gay,” Carlson observed) and traditional gender roles, where Carlson’s earlier insistence that you can’t treat people differently based on how they are born seemed to evaporate. There was a bit of an odd couple dynamic between the two, including a surreal digression about Joseph Stalin (“I’m a fan,” Fuentes told an incredulous Carlson, “always an admirer.”).
But the crucial thing that Carlson understands, like Kirk did before him, is that Fuentes represents the vanguard of the conservative movement and that the forces once able to shape the contours of this movement — the Mitch McConnells and Fox Newses — are losing the power to set priorities and enforce norms against people like Fuentes.
This poses a unique threat to Jews because, as a small minority, they have historically relied on one of two different strategies to maintain their safety and status in society. The first is to build a coalition with other minorities who, by joining together, have more leverage to demand equal rights. And the second is to maintain a close relationship with those in power who can carve out special protections for Jews.
The second model has been the preferred approach to working with an increasingly authoritarian Trump administration hostile toward minority rights, and it’s found some success as, for example, the White House has demanded colleges end their diversity programs while simultaneously demanding they tailor special services to help Jewish students.
And yet as the power of conservative gatekeepers like McConnell and Rupert Murdoch erodes, this contradiction can only be maintained if MAGA leaders are able to genuinely convince their base that Jews are an important part of their coalition.
That is challenging when Carlson, Fuentes and Kirk have all accurately pointed out that Jews are overwhelmingly liberal and opposed to Trump — to say nothing of the antisemitic tropes and conspiracies that often animate these complaints.
***
Of special concern to many Jewish conservatives was that the Heritage Foundation, an influential think tank that has been cranking out policy blueprints for the White House, including on antisemitism, rushed to Carlson’s defense after his conversation with Fuentes. President Kevin Roberts insisted that “Christians can critique the State of Israel.” Some staff and antisemitism task force members resigned in response this week.
Several right-wing Jewish groups associated with the Heritage Foundation’s antisemitism task force, including the Zionist Organization of America, threatened to cut ties with the organization. And Sen. Ted Cruz, who Carlson hammered over his support for Israel in a June interview, called him a “coward” who was complicit in evil during remarks at the Republican Jewish Coalition conference in Las Vegas this past weekend.
But the politicians and organizations rushing to condemn Carlson and Fuentes mostly came onto the scene before Trump upended national politics, and their understanding of the political landscape does not seem to have caught up.
There is little indication they are capable of reclaiming control of a Republican party whose youth wing was just consumed by a scandal involving several of its leaders making explicitly antisemitic comments about Jews and praising Nazis in a leaked group chat, only to be defended by Vice President JD Vance.
Nearly 500,000 people tuned in to watch Fuentes, streaming from his basement studio Monday night, mock the Jewish leaders who were seeking to ostracize him. He was frustrated but also triumphant. The sudden outrage at his interview with Carlson seemed like a last gasp of the previous “cancel culture” that Trump’s reelection had otherwise wiped out.
Fuentes and his ilk have been unbanned from social platforms, he dined with the president at Mar-a-Lago three years ago — “This guy’s hardcore,” Fuentes claims Trump said, “I like this guy” — and Carlson went from mocking him to enlisting him as a political ally.
Carlson and Heritage seem to recognize that the wind is at Fuentes’ back, and are responding accordingly.
“People are simply catching up. They’re waking up to what has always been going on — which is that we’ve been fighting these people’s wars for generations,” Fuentes told his audience, referring to Jews. “We want our fucking country back.”
