Breaking with his previous restraint, Israel’s ambassador to the United States delivered an unprecedented blast against J Street, the new dovish Israel lobby that has made waves in Washington and throughout the Jewish community.
Addressing a breakfast session at the United Synagogue of Conservative Judaism’s biennial convention December 7, Ambassador Michael Oren described J Street as “a unique problem in that it not only opposes one policy of one Israeli government, it opposes all policies of all Israeli governments. It’s significantly out of the mainstream.”
After a speech that touched on the spiritual basis for and the threats to the state of Israel, Oren issued an unscripted condemnation of J Street.
“This is not a matter of settlements here [or] there. We understand there are differences of opinion,” Oren said. “But when it comes to the survival of the Jewish state, there should be no differences of opinion. You are fooling around with the lives of 7 million people. This is no joke.”
Oren’s blunt comments contrasted with his reaction in October, when J Street invited him to address its first Washington conference. After an extended delay, Oren declined the offer. The embassy issued a statement saying that it would be “privately communicating its concerns over certain policies of the organization that may impair the interests of Israel.” Instead, it sent a lower-level diplomat to observe the conference.
Meanwhile, Israeli President Shimon Peres and Tzipi Livni, leader of Israel’s parliamentary opposition, sent warm personal greetings to the J Street conference. Several senior members of Livni’s Kadima party traveled to Washington to address the gathering, as did Deputy Knesset Speaker Yuli TamIr of the Labor Party.
Shortly after the conference, Oren told a New York City audience that if the organization addressed some of his concerns, “there’s no reason why we can’t have a constructive dialogue.”
But at the USCJ breakfast, Oren criticized J Street after an audience member asked him how synagogues should respond if congregants requested that the group be invited to make a presentation.
“Engage with them,” he said. “But I think it’s very important that you be up-front with them and say why these policies are outside the mainstream and why they are inimical to Israel’s fundamental interests.”
Oren cited J Street’s criticism of Israel’s military campaign in Gaza in December 2008 and last January, and its support for talks with the Islamist militant group Hamas, which has engaged in terrorism, as examples of positions that were outside the Jewish mainstream; however, an opinion poll sponsored by the Israeli daily Haaretz in November found that 57% of Israelis favored talks with Hamas under certain conditions. Oren also accused J Street of failing to reject the UN’s Goldstone report, which found Israel had committed war crimes during the Gaza campaign. Finally, he charged that the group opposed sanctions against Iran.
In an October interview with The Atlantic writer Jeffrey Goldberg, J Street’s executive director, Jeremy Ben-Ami, endorsed the main Iran sanctions bill sponsored by California Democratic Rep. Howard Berman. In an ironic twist, J Street issued a statement advocating its passage on the day that Oren made his remarks.
“Perhaps if he would meet with us, he could actually find out what we stand for, rather than having to misrepresent our position,” Ben-Ami said. “I don’t quite understand how it is in the State of Israel’s interest to look at J Street as a problem, to write off an organization that represents a large number of American Jews.”
Also at the USCJ breakfast, Oren was asked about the November incident at Jerusalem’s Western Wall, when police detained Nofrat Frenkel of the prayer group Women of the Wall after she wore a tallit and carried a Torah in the women’s section of the main Kotel plaza.
“It is not a perfect situation.” Oren said. “We in Israel have to strike a balance between our respect for pluralism and our respect for tradition.”
Oren said that original reports stating that Frenkel had been arrested were mistaken, and that she was simply led away from the Kotel area.
This contradicted a first-person account by Frenkel, published in the December 9 issue of the Forward, in which she described being taken to a police station and interrogated.
“As we were exiting, with me carrying the Torah, a policeman met us and began pushing me forcefully toward the nearby police station,” Frenkel wrote. “Our pleas and explanations that we were on our way to the alternative site were of no use. I was transferred for questioning to the station at David’s Citadel.”
Contact Josh Nathan-Kazis at nathankazis@forward.com
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Was this before or after J Street started accepting significant amounts of money from Arab individuals and organizations?
Ambassador Oren's are but one more example of the extent to which Israel, over 42 years, if not more, has dammed up the democratic stream and the human rights stream. In its place, the "mainstream" that Israel has created is actually a stagnant pond of Occupation, ongoing violations of human rights and international law, extremism and paranoia. It is a pond in which democracy sinks to the bottom and anti democratic movements float on top and are increasingly nourished by the Israeli Government. The most recent example is the manner in which the Netanyahu announces a very warm and meaningless "settlement freeze" on the one hand, assumes that this move will fool the US administration on the other hand, while at the same time declaring settlements as national priority zones.
Placing the settlement enterprise above democracy, human rights and good relations with the US and Europe while continuing to accuse critics like Justice Goldstone of being anti Semites etc. is the height of absurdity, but it seems that the absurd is what floats the Israeli boat in this stagnant pond in which it seems to be the only organism willing to drink from its poison water.
Eric,
Are you implying that J Street should discriminate against Arabs and Muslims, or that all Arabs and Muslism hate Israel therefore any donations from them are soley for the purpose of destroying Israel? Either way, you demonstrate stereotypical and racist thinking. Most of these days at least try to do a better job of hiding it than right-wing opponents of J Street do.
As a proud J Street supporter, a young Jewish professional, and a former resident of Israel with two Israeli sisters, as well as countless friends and family there, I can't help but feel that Mr. Oren's remarks are not merely an attack on J Street, but an attack on my entire community of family, friends and colleagues who share with J Street its desire for a negotiated two state solution and a peaceful end to the Israeli-Palestinian, Israeli-Arab and Israeli-Iranian conflicts.
Mr. Oren seems to believe that in order to adequately love and support Israel, we must echo a hardline, hawkish point of view that undermines human rights, international law, and respect for the national aspirations of Palestinian people, or, if we differ too greatly over what strategic actions Israel must take in order to obtain its long-term objectives of peace and stability, we must do no more than butt out and shut up.
And yet, the Israeli establishment and its American Jewish institutional counterparts nonetheless endlessly gripe about the alienation young American Jews feel towards Israel and spend endless amounts of money and energy trying to recoup our interest, our activism and our investment. But we are already invested in Israel: I, my family, my friends, my colleagues — we are committed to Israel's success, its security, its future enduring, its continued existence. We just see the road to peace differently from the Israeli establishment which, for over 40 years, has failed time-and-time to achieve this objective, but which instead, has succeeded in ratcheting up hatred against the state, its citizens and its supporters in the diaspora.
I do not argue that we know better, that everything we believe is right, that our resolutions are the only or best approaches. But I do know that so long as the state's own officials make us feel as though or energies, or commitment, and our participation are unwelcome lest we conform to particular behavioral and political orthodoxies, my generation and its successors will continue to feel alienated, disenfranchised and disinterested in renewing our relationship with the Jewish state. And that will be a far greater tragedy for Israel than its current government's policy disagreements with J Street.
I had the displeasure of hearing Ambassador Oren speak at a Washington DC Reform shul this past Rosh Hashanah. At a time when we celebrate the awe and wonder of G-d's creation and the diversity of life, Mr. Oren preached his own theology that anything other than one unified Jewish opinion is morally wrong. His policy that there should be "No differences of opinion" within the Jewish community is completely antithetical to the cultural, spiritual and religious history of Judaism. His statements are the equivalent of saying that only Orthodox Jews are "real" Jews.
In the tradition and spirit of Hillel and Shamai, I support JStreet because I believe in the intrinsic value of people sharing and arguing their opinions in a public forum. This is the only path to understanding and the only path to peace. It is unfortunate that Ambassador Oren has been given such a public platform, but I am confident that the JStreet agenda will be heard despite his disapproval.
Here's a link to the entire Hamas Charter. Fatah is no better and has never rescinded their goal to destroy Israel as they'd agreed to at Oslo (and they never will).
http://www.acpr.org.il/resources/hamascharter.html
Michael Oren is the problem and there is nothing unique about him.
Speaking of problems, I'm tired of the same old "problems" like Debbie with strawman arguements like: "The problem with J Street and those who support J Street is their inherent ignorance on the subjects of Hamas, Islam, and what the true goal is of the adherents of both."
Claim the other side is naive and therefor it makes them have to prove that they are not falling into the trap that people like Debbie make and stops all credible debate on the subject or subjects.
Mr. Oren and the bunch of Israeli Neocons mould Israel into unique problem of the whole Jewish People. Inside and outside Eretz Israel. Yeshar koah to J Street.
You cannot argue with a fool because he might think the same thing!
I would request that Eric Liebman could provide a list of those Arab individuals and Organizations that have contributed significant sums of money to 'J' Street. His bold statement indicates that he must have a list naming them and the money that has been noted.
Ambassador Oren's call for a united voice among American Jews in support of Israel foreign policy will last just as long as Likud is in the majority. I am old enough to have seen what happens when Labor holds the prime minister's post.
What's the big deal? JStreet is anti-Israel. If it was anti-Mongolia I'm sure the Mongolian ambassador would speak out against it. Oren is the Israeli ambassador so he is merely doing his job.
Let me see if I have this right: an ambassador who is personally a member of right-wing party and was appointed to his current to his position by a right-wing government is trying to demonize people with a "different" point of you and suggest that they are traitors and calibrators with the "enemy?" How shocking. It's almost as unusual as discovering exaggerations and misinformation delivered as "news" on Fox Noise.
Can't political conservatives ever come up with anything more original than these tired demagogic tactics? Probably requires too much thinking and tolerance for others.
JStreet is giving voice to much of the liberal sentment within the American Jewish Community. It is not surprising that it has emerged at a time when the religious divide between Israel and American Jews has grown wide. Israel has moved to the religious right; American Jews to the religious left -- with the notable exception of Orthodoxy. This divide has been especially painful to American Jews on issues surrounding identity and conversion. As many American Jews feel less viscerally connected to Israel, the differences over policy (which in past generations were repressed by a sense of oneness) come to the surface. As much as traditionalists (like myself) might hope for a return to unity, such hopes are not realistic at present.
J Street is funded and supported by representatives dedicated to the destruction of the Jewish state. For instance, there is a connection between National Iranian American Council (NIAC) -- which lobbies on behalf of the interests of the tyrannical and murderous Iranian regime -- and J Street -- which claims to be a pro-Israel organization. NIAC's internal emails and other documents have been uncovered in the discovery process of a defamation case it brought against an Iranian who accused NIAC of lobbying. These materials not only support the lobbying charge, but provide an invaluable window into NIAC's machinations, as well as its associates.
Ben Smith of Politico confirms the collaboration between NIAC and J Street. He reports that the minutes of a series of meetings that included NIAC and J Street "offer a glimpse of the strategy and tactics involved in the push for a rapprochement with the Islamic Republic, from an attempt to undermine the appointment of Dennis Ross as Iran envoy to a planned 'Send Hillary to Iran' campaign."
J Street, in short, is working hand-in-glove with NIAC to press a pro-mullah agenda on the Obama administration. And part of that agenda consisted of trying to prevent Dennis Ross's selection as envoy to Iran. Ross is hardly a neo-conservative, but he is Jewish. Thus, it makes sense that the Iranian regime and its lobbying arm didn't want him for the envoy job (although, as Jennifer Rubin notes, NIAC's website embraces Ross, calling him a "distinguished American policymaker" who has come under attack for supporting the Obama adminstration's Middle East policy). But it's disgusting that J Street worked with NIAC in an attempt to block Ross.
As Rubin aptly puts it, "It seems as though the issue as to whether J Street is 'pro-Israel' has been superseded by another: is it pro-mullah?"
The questions that any conscientious and conscionable Jew must ask his/her self are as follows:
Is Israel faced with an existential threat?
Any astute person would answer that Israel's security is exceedingly precarious, as they face an explicit nuclear threat from Iran. Is the threat based on religious zeal and fanaticism?
Any one who studies Iranian history or reads about the Iranian president knows definitively that as a fervent Muslim he believes he is the ultimate harbinger for a great Apocalypse.
Therefore, any one who believes there can be reconciliation or negotiation with such an individual is in dire need of a reality check.
In addition, it is now concrete, ironclad fact that Arafat was offered over 90% of his demands and yet he was not satisfied. Terror ensued. Pacification and negotiation does not hold sway with people of an ideological posture.
For Arafat and his ilk (the Iranian president included) it's all or nothing. Tragically, they have more passion, reverence, and regard for the Land than many less affiliated Jews. For J Street and their ilk it seems to be all or nothing, as well, just in another direction... all of Islam and Arab States and nothing of Israel.
I don't mean to be facetious or disrespectful. We are facing an unprecedented threat in which entire nations can be eradicated in a heart beat and I believe that this must be studied from a truthful and pragmatic perspective. We are not dealing with trivialities. We are dealing with millions of our brothers and sisters who are in danger.
Let's think our of the box and reflect on whether, perhaps, in our pursuit of peace and equality we've been misguided.
re: "so long as the state's own officials make us feel as though or energies, or commitment, and our participation are unwelcome lest we conform to particular behavioral and political orthodoxies, my generation and its successors will continue to feel alienated, disenfranchised and disinterested in renewing our relationship with the Jewish state. And that will be a far greater tragedy for Israel than its current government's policy disagreements with J Street." - Daniel Sieradski
I daresay that it's better for Israel that Jews who support Arab rights over Jewish rights are completely disenfranchised. Who needs ya? :D
In the newly released book, Search Judaism: Judaism's Answers to a Changing World (Targum, 2009), the author decisively and objectively proves that the land of Israel can't be subject to the norms, dictates, or standards that groups like J Street would aver. The author corroborates his assertion with substantive science that Israel is an entity that defies and transcends. If you haven't read the book and you are truly open-minded, I suggest you give it a good read. If the author's stance is correct (and it seems to be irrefutable), it is incumbent on us to approach Israel from a different perspective, not the one that J Street and others espouse, which relegates Israel to just another piece of mundane territory on the map.
its all again the same story the less affiliated jews claim that they care about israel when they have no connection to the jewish people and the jewish state and the more observant jews are against the j street anti israel because they feel a connection to the jewish people and the state of israel.
i am an hasidic satmar jew that's theologically opposed to the secular state of israel but the holy satmar rabbi said once that if a non affiliated Jew and gentile speak out against israel its not based on theological reasons its because they are anti Semitic this is coming from a rabbi that was vehemently opposed to the Zionist movement
Thank you Matt!
J Street's Jewish supporters must ultimately ask themselves what their priorities are, and face up to them. If their priorities are the world Jewish community, including Israel as the center of that community, then there is room for discussion. There is a tremendous amount that Israeli and Diaspora Jews can learn from each other, and there are a lot of policies that J Street supporters and Israelis share -- healthcare, environment, equal employment, the role of religion in the state. J Street can be a catalyst for initiatives to strengthen these ties.
However, if J Street's supporters' priorities are "how can I make Israel less embarrassing" or "how can I force Israel to behave as if the Middle East is a New England town meeting?", however, then Michael Oren is completely correct. There are over 7 million people here, including nearly 5.8 million Jews. Our lives, like yours, are no joke. We in Israel value your lives and are concerned about your welfare because we place Am Yisrael before our personal "engagements with....". If the "pro-Israel" part of the "pro-Israel, pro-peace" is a problem for J Street supporters, and if they think that the Goldstone Commission Report is the standard for investigating Israel, they should seek competent professional therapy to tackle these personal issues. We will not sit idly by, while an organization supported by such people bends the ear of the president of the US, claiming to represent US Jewry's silent majority. In that case, we will fight J Street in the marketplace of ideas, and we will use the words "illegitimate" and "out of the mainstream" -- because that is exactly what J Street would be.
The basic question goes back to the Book of Joshua, "are you with us or with our oppressors?" Only J Street's can answer that one.
Jews over the last 150 years or so have had a desire to walk themselves into the ovens thinking they are doing the right thing. In Germany thousands of Jews converted to Christianity in an attempt to be accepted into society. It didn't work and it didn't save them. They too died in the ovens. In the USA the same is true. Many Jews have accepted the plight of the made up nation of Palestine, by joining forces with these infidels. The end result will be the same, more ovens and more death. Apologists, will not win in the end. Action will, and more importantly the truth will. So if America's Jews wish to emulate and support the actions of these wanton murderers thinking they will be accepted they too will find a special oven waiting for them. It didn't work in Germany, and it sure as hell will not work here in the USA. If America's Jews think that being "so liberal' is the answer, that's great. There are plenty of Arabs in the world today who will sell them the matches to destroy themselves.
I am convinced that if Mr. Oren & Mr. Netanyahu had their way they would expel all non jews from Israel. I am not convinced but I do fear that the current leadership in Israel does not recognize that those who disagree with their views are actually Jewish. Indeed, when I see speeches such as this characterizing someone elses honestly held beliefs as being a traitor to Israel & a traitor to the Jewish people, I am reminded of the public statements made by politicians of Europe in the 30's & 40's.
Mind you, I don't feel Mr. Oren nor Mr. Netanyahu are Nazi's, they clearly are not. But I do think that they learned the wrong lessons from that whole sorry period in our history. God help us all.
The larger issue here is greater than J St. (I am a supporter and proudly participated in the October conference.) Oren, and his allies, are waging an all-out effort to de-legitimize all criticism in the USA of basic Netanyahu policy that will never get us to a two-state solution. Oren's allies include Hoenlein, Foxman and AJC's David Harris. Obama recognizes the pro-Israel/pro-peace stance of most of the American Jewish community. Knowlegable voices, and caring ones like MJ Rosenberg's, are more needed than ever. David Cohen Washington DC
Lanny Davis has written a devastating critique and expose of J Street as a front financed by both Arabs and the interests of George Soros.Ambassador Oren deserves much credit for exposing the views of J Street as beyond the mainstream of even the most liberal members of the Jewish establishment.
David Cohen says: "Oren, and his allies, are waging an all-out effort to de-legitimize all criticism in the USA of basic Netanyahu policy that will never get us to a two-state solution." This is the basic theme in the crticism of Ambassador Oren as I read the comments here.
It reads to me that you are waging an all-out effor to de-legitimize criticism of J-Street. So Oren could not criticize J-Street and call it like he sees it, but you and J-Street can mount a campaign on the theme to de-legitimize him.
How about just allowing both criticisms and dealing with the substative issues, like J-Streets unsavory funding and J-Streets harsh attacks on Israel.
The trouble with Oren is that he can't decide what country's official he is, Israel or US and loses control as if he were a PR man. J Street is an AMERICAN organization and Oren's dual citizenship is illegal so he would do well to remember diplomatic protocol so as not to make himself persona non grata. This is what happens when your pocket is stuffed with too many passports. Leave J STREET-- a group of American patriots that happen to love for Israel as ancestral homeland, alone. As ambassador Oren should know that he is free to lie about but not to slander Americans. Both he could only do when he pretended to be a scholar. J Street didn’t challenge his legitimacy and receive him respectfully, he should stop acting like some sort of multi-passport Russian Mafioso and remember he's only an ambassador here.
Mr. Oren should have talked about a greater threat to Israel than J Street itself--and that is the decline of American Jewry because of massive amount of intermarriage and assimilation. The younger generation American Jews have lesser passion towards Israel and fall for these left leaning organizations like J Street because they want to prove to their peers that they are non conformist and are "open minded" about peace negotiations with terror groups like HAMAS. (Who knows, maybe Chelsie Clinton will push her future Jewish husband to be bit more "pro-Israel" than J-Street?)
I predict that J Street will not play a major role in the future in Middle East policy, and its fifteen minutes of fame will end right after Obama's reign is over, and Republicans retake control of Capitol and the White House.
Hey Malcolm, on top of paying more in taxes as foreign aid per Israeli than for any other country-- a sum Israel's Likud leaders wants to up now even though America is broke-- the J Street American taxpayers are AMERICANS WHO HAPPEN TO BE JEWS who support you so try to be graciously courteous when you live on a handout (Israeli wealth is in shekels based on $ backing, a debt Congress secretly forgives periodically). You say that you don't want American Jews like them interfering in your affairs...OK, then pay your own bills! This insane schmaltzy demand that you alone be allowed to have your cake and eat it too has been and CONTINUES to be defended by J Street out of Zionist duty and affection and people on welfare US welfare like you just can't seem to be grateful. You don't want supporters who stand by you while giving you their honest opinion, you want mental slaves as if you were Moscow Central of the Comintern and they were the US Communist Party. BY contrast in Israel one can say ANYTHING one wants and even Likudnik totalitarians in the government seek to muzzle you there will always be a judicial level that will defend your right to speak freely. But what you, Oren and your ilk want is for no American Jew to have his American rights when it comes to Israel. Instead you want them to swallow whole your hasbara, digest it and excrete it smelling like roses!
I just don't understand some of you. On the one hand you cheer all these crazy settlers that live like leaches off of Israel, inciting the Arabs by violating their human rights, and thus needing ten sabras to defend each of you, but you never say anything about the fact that these Haredi don't recognize the legitimacy of the state of Israel and so don't pay taxes, don't serve in the army and don't obey civil laws-- not to speak of violating the civil rights of everyone around them. Yet, you go after a bunch of young Jews trying to find the proper position for them as Americans and as Zionists and as moral human beings. They are not your pets…they are modern humans who must satisfy their moral sense. It's a struggle in which you should help in appreciation for the fact that they do more for Israel than most people. They're struggling with moral issues. You should be proud for it seems young Jews are the last Americans still struggling with finding the moral way. Everyone thinks God lives on Wall Street.
As in the welfare system of old it's always the one who gets the handout who makes the biggest noise about it not being big enough. But in this case, Malcolm, you can't shut them up but they can shut you off; so think, Malcolm, think about the hand that feeds you. The billionaires like Saban won't be around forever and you'll need the next generation-- the J Streeters-- to survive. Why then regret later your big mouth of now slandering your brothers in faith and Zionism? Better to be an understanding brother to them now and discuss their views without slandering their motives (as they are in deep moral quandary) and they will be brothers to you. Remember Joseph and what his brothers did to him and don’t do the same to J Streeters. Don’t be like the brothers who sold him out and only later came to regret it when he was there to save them in their hour of need.
Dave, I empathize with you. It happens to all our nationalities once in America. That's why I so loved going to Israel, the only place in the Romanian Diaspora where you can still find a REAL Romanian atmosphere in landsmen still avid lovers of the very culture that so hurt them. Affection and persecution in the same breast who forigives but doesn't forget makes for a strong cultural identity that makes one feel as if among saints. Judaism will morph many ways in these shiksta marriages but will never die for it is an identiy that I, though still uncircumcized, came to love as a means to look at the world and be constructive and passed it on to my kids, goyum too. Take it from me, a goy thoroughly assimilated in the Jewish soup, an assimilated Jew may forget a lot of ceremony and letters of the Hebrew alphabet learned for bar-mitzvah, but that JEWISH MINDSET never leaves you and it passes on to your kids-- Jews or not-- even to mine who are totally Christian Orthodox. And you know what, it made them much better Christians. There's a reason why Jesus came from Jews and so long as there will be good Christians there will be good Jews to remind them of their roots and a vibrant JEWISH WAY in both! So don't ever damn the assimilayted for he/she is as much YOU as yuo are, forever, generation to generation to generation....
"Are you implying that J Street should discriminate against Arabs and Muslims, or that all Arabs and Muslism hate Israel therefore any donations from them are soley for the purpose of destroying Israel? Either way, you demonstrate stereotypical and racist thinking. Most of these days at least try to do a better job of hiding it than right-wing opponents of J Street do."
Always keep in mind the old saying: "If the Arabs were to put down their weapons today, we'll have peace in the Middle East tomorrow, if Israel was to put down its weapons today, there wont be an Israel tomorrow."
Yes, Israel is a constant reminder of the Arab world incompetence on every level. They (the Arabs and non Arab Muslims along with some other European nations) would love to see it disappear, thinking that all the world's ills would disappear along with Israel disappearance, think about that for a minute, as if prior to Israel's birth, the world was a Garden of Eden.
J-Streeters, when was the last time you actualy had a look at the map of the region, from Morocco in the west to Pakistan in the east and from Sudan in the south to Turkey in the north, have the whole map fit any size screen you want, and try to come to terms with what it is exactly they want from Israel.
I think the easiest thing to do would be to invite all supporters of J-Street and their loved ones to spend a month in Sderot. . The apparent inability of J-Street supporters and their like to comprehend that there the only "peace" the Arab and Moslem worlds will ever allow is in a world without Israel. Their ultimate goal is and always has been Israel's destruction and it does not look like that will change any time soon. Concession after concession was requested of Israel and implemented with the result being more and more terror attacks from our so-called peace partners. J-Street supporters and thir like have wonderful theories of peace and mutual respect between Israel and her neighbors - unfortunately these theories fall apart the moment a little thing called reality sets in. . As Golda Meir said, there will be peace whent the Aravs start to love their children more than they hate us. We have always been willing and even eager for peace, but the fact - the reality - is that if they put down their guns there will be peace. If we put down ours we will be dead.
J-Street and its supporters, IMHO, haven't the slightest grasp on the realities Israel deals with on a daily basis and are - unintentionally - doing far, far more damage to Israel than any good that can come from their acivities. They are, as Oren said, playing with millions of Jewish lives in a game in which they have no comprehension of the rules and in fact as far as our oponents in this game are concerned - there are no rules. . Wake up and smell the coffee, people!
Israel is a democracy. It's current govt. was formed in accordance with Israeli law. Labor got only a tiny number of representatives in the Knesset. Their views which are shared by J-Street were rejected by the Israeli people. Yet J-Street seems to think it's appropriate to pressure our govt. here to push Israel in the direction the Israeli people deem incorrect for their well being and survival. Sounds like fascist thinking to me. The majority of Israeli's don't think it's right for the USA to pressure them into giving up settlements prior to negotiations. Yet J-Street knows better what Israel should do. If J-Street is pro- Israel why don't they find out what Israel thinks is good for them. I mean the majority not the frustrated and insignificant left.
J Street has gotten too big for its britches. Just because a fanatic mogul like George Soros funds it doesn't mean it should have any credibility. Good on Ambassador Oren for exposing J Street's treachery. Had this turncoat organization existed in the time of the Msccabees, it would have been shafted just like the pro-Greek Jews were - and rightly so.
It is Michale Oren who is dangerous for the survival of the nation of Israel. He and his Likud buddies insist that Israel can unilaterally declare that Arab East Jerusalem is a part of the capital of Israel, and nobody will notice. Well the European Union, and the U.S., and the rest of the world has noticed, and they strongly disagree with Israel on this matter. Peace will never come unless Israel freezes settlement development in occupied East Jerusalem as well, and this area is negotiated along with the rest of the West Bank. I love Israel and want it to thrive; Oren's politics makes this impossible.
Kahane was right and still is right. Everything he predicted has come to reality. J Street? For fools who don't understand the true nature of the Israeli-arab conflict in both its regional dimension and its religious dimension against the backdrop of resurgent worldwide Islamism.
Let's hope the hateful will benefit from the story of Ilana Meallem's life and experiences. I envy her for living the life I dreamt about but never had the courage to go after.
http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1260447408182&pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FShowFull
DE Teodoru: The more I read of your posts, the more I became aware of your strange connection to the Jews. Also ditto to your musings and "advice." As to your reference to Oren's "double-citizenship" and also the good old stand-by of "double-loyalties" (this one has a long and lamentably dark legacy in the annals of anti-Semitism), a little more research would have informed you that Oren, upon being appointed ambassador to the United States gave up his U.S. citizenship. This gives him the right to make comments about a "Jewish" group which by making common cause with Israel's mortal enemies undermines the security of the Jewish state. This may not frighten you, a mere visitor to Judaism, but it certainly is of grave concern to me, a full-time (all the way back to the Levites)and concerned member of the Jewish people.
HA, the article in the Jerusalem Post about Ilana Meallem's life is interesting. But is a by-choice, nomadic, rootless existence without children a model for jewish survival? It's not.
HA: You envy Ilana Meallim? Her rootless, neo-hippy roaming? She belongs everywhere, and yet, nowhere. We have been called rootless cosmopolitans and we have been scorned to "Go Back to Palestine." And now that we have returned to our ancient homeland that still needs our vigilance and our dedication, some of our own have begun to drift away. That's how we lose what we almost have in our grasp. This is what you envy?
Scorpio, if instead of looking for anti-Semitic dragons to slay you looked in the Star-Ledger you would note that Oren told them that he holds dual citizenship. But that's really not the issue, you got my point all wrong. WHAT I WAS TRYING TO SAY IS THAT THE HAREDI SETTLERS ARE COSTING QUITE A BIT TO THE *SABRAS* BORN THERE WITH NO PLACE ELSE TO GO BUT ISRAEL. Israel will NEVER disappear for no matter how often Obama is called a "Arab Schwartza" (Oh, I forgot, now Teits claims that she has a birth cirtificatev that shows that Obama was born in Israel so you can call him a Holy Schwartza!) he will never allow Israel to suffer any serious demise or attack on its soil that is dangerous to its survival. I am attached enough that I would go there in case of trouble to see what I could do-- and I don't have any dual citizenship!
Try looking for friends FIRST rather than getting out of bed in the morning and looking for anti-Semite dragons to slay. You might find that the former far out-weigh and outnumber the latter. And it ain't no thanks to your plesant goyim diplomacy, I asure you. As I said, we all have Jews who deeply impacted our lives. In their altruism to us personally-- the power of scholarly Jews is that they have a penchant for dealing with people one on one-- they gave us a grasp of the faith-culture that makes us feel attached. I remember doing cesserians with a rabbi/ob-gyn and he would take night-calls together so we would sometimes spend the whole night philosophizing. You don't meet many people like him in America, unless Haredis, so you tend to feel welcomed and at home amongst them; so much so that whether attacked in Brooklyn or Jerusalem, you instinctively jump to their defense. For years the only thing I knew about Irish is that they'd surround me, ask me if I'm a Jew, I'd say yes and we'd fight till I dropped. Yet everyone felt as if he knocked me down personally. I never met Jews that worked in gangs. Though looking at videos of Haredi thugs attacking old Palestinian women on Jerusalem streets I wonder where they were brought up.
Alas, you seem-- ON THE SURFACE-- not to be that kind of Jew, like my Jews. Rather you're the kind who looks out his golden carriage window saying "oy, an anti-Semitee goy plebian, eehhh!" Try to open your mind, you'll see a lot more sunshine than the cloudyness you attribute to others. Start by trying to give the J Streeters the benifit of the doubt. They're awfully caring people, for Jews and non-Jews alike and have trained themselves not to think "anti-Semite" first. Given that Jews wiped its racism off America's face I figure that's how you should be.
Malcolm, Malcom, I am sure you can do better than that. Why not try to go by your own Joseph analogy. J Street wishes Israel no ill. You try to pass as fact a lot of your biliary assetions but you are attacking your own and alientating far more Jews that just J Street with your judgement first. Many of the settlers don't even consider Israel legit Jewish state for reasons you know well. Try to talk less trashy and do credit to yourself. you're not in a life-and-death knife fight, your talking to people who take the trouble to listen and talk to you. what could be better. Happy Hanuckha!
There is no basis whatsoever for Jerusalem to be redivided yet again. It was divided between 1949 and 1967, and yet the Jordanians did not make it their capital, nor was it ever the capital of any Arab state in all of recorded history. If Berlin, the capital of the former Nazi regime could be reunited, then what crime has Israel committed that the only capital of a Jewish state be once again be redivided? Has everyone forgotten that when Jerusalem was divided, Israeli Jews could not pray at the Western Wall? Yet does Israel deny Muslims to come and pray from the West Bank? And Jews are even kept from praying on the Temple Mount itself. The simple fact is, that the Muslim world is sworn never to allow a Jewish state to exist in peace. Nothing anyone can do will change this theological stance on the part of the Muslims. We must expel the defeatists and appeasers from our midst. The Arabs get great pleasure watching timid self-doubting Jews defeat themselves. They don't need to argue their own case when they see swarms of cringing, cowardly Jews do it for them on their behalf. The truth is, the Arabs have no case and they know it so they are more than happy to see desperate snivelling JEws make it for them. Israel has made more concessions than any victorious state has ever made in all of history to try to appease the vanquished and the world. Israel must draw a double red line in the sand and declare this is it! Take it or leave it! If not, the so-called "occupation" can go on for ad infinitum. Anyhow, what would keep the major news outlets in business if indeed there really were a resolution to this conflict?
I don't think Jews need to be monlithic, or to support all of Israel's policies. Jstreet is one (small) voice in the debate. There are many more conservative voices -- such as AIPAC and, most importantly from our Evangelical Christian friends. The old saying is true: Israels safety belt is the Bible Belt. Thus while JStreet is not a direct threat to Israel's security, it is symptomatic of what is a grave threat. And that is the distance that secular Jews feel from Israel. Many relate to Israel as neutrals, often feeling no special connection to the Jewish State because they feel little connection to their own Jewishness, In the past, religious or not, American Jews felt Jewish. Today they, for the most part, do not. That is why assimilation rates are skyrocketing and the children of those intermarried -- many who celebrate both Jewish and Chritsian holidays -- don't feel that deep connection to Judaism, Israel and the history of the Jewish people that charaterized previous generation of Jews in America,
Jeff, thank God, you sound so reasonable and tolerant. But then I fear for you for you are seeing friends where history has shown enemies. do not misread the easy come easy go allies. Focus on keeping this country open minded so Jews can prosper and Israel can be safe. Anything forced will shatter.
Some branches wither away and die, while old branches renew and come back to life. For many decades, Russian Jews were written off as a lost dead branch. Yet slowly but surely, from the depths of the swamp that was the old atheist USSR, latent Jewish branches come to life and slowly bear fruit. So, as many American Jews go off the reservation and become lost to the tribe, others come back to life and back home. There have to be some red lines. Jerusalem is one; Intermarriage is another. At some point, tribal laws and personal freedoms will cross swords. Individuals have free will and will decide which side of the line they wish to remain on. Half the tribal native American "indians" will never leave their tribal lands no matter the poverty or lack of personal opportunities. Others have left and cut the cords that once bound them to their people. The State of Israel has conceded enough. Loyal Jews have to have the guts to stand up and say, "Ad kann, v'lo yoter" (English: Up to here, but no further).
I think the FOrward did a disservice by censoring "Rabbi" Jutners talk about J street. While I feel that he is a leftist extremist, his comments highlight a tension within J street whether they support a 2 state solution or a single state binational state. There are elements of both in Jstreet. The strain of Soros, Waldmann and Chabon suggest support for a one state solution, as well as the opposition to sanctions against Iran. Im sure that there are distinct supporters of the 2 state solution, but the membership will have conflict when some factions of Jstreet support Boycott Divestment Sanctions against Israel and others do not
This is a very interesting story, and reveals the two states of Israel: the actual country that is inhabited by (mostly)human beings who find a way to live and grow together, albeit with tremendous amounts of friction, disagreement, and frequent violations of various international conventions, and the other state, the one that is constantly hammered into the consciences of media followers, that faces an existential threat from all corners, the unending ironic cries of victimhood and persecution. As is evident from the comments on this page, the truth is to be found somewhere in the middle. The truth can be found in the honest pursuit of genuine human values, on the basis of equality, justice and respect. The truth is not beholden to any one religion or ethnicity. As I am a Muslim, I have grounds to agree with many of the persuasive arguments on this thread: American Jews live in one of the most developed societies in the modern world, in which the government is forbidden by the first amendment to make any laws with regards to religion, and it is plain to see that the USA has succeeded in bringing together thousands of diverse communities to live work and share together. If American Jews want to share their experience with Israeli Jews via J Street, I say bravo! And I don't support Hamas.
Seef, may I please consider you as my best Christmas gift this year?
I don't want you to agree with me or with J Street. I only want you to be a REAL Jew and be intellectually sane, as you indeed are in your comment, rather than slanderous and psychotic as some seem to be. Israel cannot exist by itself. IT NEEDS A LOT OF NON-JEWS AND *ALL* THE JEWS' GOOD WILL and ALL THE ARABS to appreciate it and deal with it NORMALLY. Some of the crack-like responses I have seen on this site sound like alQaeda Jihadists of the Jewish persuation, though most of them may well have no GENETIC lineage to the area, being only East Euros from converted stock centuries ago. Still, a Jew is a Jew and MOST Jews are Diaspora Jews and will forever be. Israel needs their good will and the kind of rage I see in the responses here can only strip Israel of its support. Evangelicals, if you read their history, can very easily be pro and anti. In the end, Jews must learn to live side by side and respect eachother, if for no other reason, than their common culture. Where they go from there is a personal matter starting from the rule live and let live for none of you is God nor his messengers. The base is your commonality as Jews. AND, SEEF, YOU SOUND TO ME LIKE A ***REAL*** JEW, open of mind and heart and unwilling to shut your brother out in the cold. The history of Zionism-- the stain that condemns it forever-- is not what it did to the Palestinians, though that too is very bad, but how it turned its back on Jews in the incipient days of the Holocaust, focusing instead on Jews "USEFUL" to the SECULAR Zionist cause. That's history, it is past ONLY if its lessons are not forgotten: NO ONE CAN JUDGE ANY OTHER FOR ALL ARE SINNERS SO LET GOD ALONE BE THE JUDGE. You, Seef, seem to favor an endless searcn for common ground, open tolerance of Jews by Jews for now is not yet the Day of Judgement, it is the day of brotherly love. So you, like another Jew long ago, today made my Christimas Holiday. Thanks and Happy Hanukha!
As for the damnation types among you, I have only one question: what will you do when this guy in the video below is the mass majority of Jews and Israelis?
http://markbraverman.org/fatal-embrace/
Today's Israel is dominated by extremists. There is not a great deal of room for dissent. That's the way it is, and that's the way that Mr. Oren must see it if he is to serve his nation as it is at this time. One of the tacks taken by the religious and political extremists running the country is to deny the Judaism of those who oppose their views. This is a daily occurrence in the comments in the pages of "Haaretz." It is about as unpleasant as it gets. Rahm Emmanuel and David Axelrod are "self-hating" Jews. Jews who favor dialog over domination are "leftist Jews who have lost their Jewish identities." I have even seen the horrible term "kapo Jews" bandied about. Let's not even talk about their unending demeaning of the President of the United States (they call him "Hussein"). Perhaps Mr. Oren is correct when he defines the views of JStreet as being outside the mainstream of today's Israel. The questions for us in the American Diaspora is whether JStreet's views are in our own mainstream and whether we accept being bullied and deprived of our identities by Israel's extremists and their representatives.
The "fear" or Jstreet -- as a political player -- seems overblown; The total amount they contribute to candidates is quite small. Jstreet seems to be more of a vehicle for certain "cool" Jews to assert their authenticity. These are folks who are in the left wing of the Democratic Party and want to be able to claim their righful place as "true" liberals. In casting their lot with the far left, however, they open themselves up to criticism not just from the mainstream Jewish community, but also from the mainsream and moderately conservative American Christian community-- which has a deep affection for Israel.
Someone was quoting from the Koran and the Hadith. I'm an Iranian and I can assure you that at least among Iranians only a minority takes either very seriously. If you look in any holy book carefully enough you can find many nasty things. Fortunately most of us don't live our lives according to the dictates of texts written 1-3 thousand years ago.
DE Teodoru, thank you for your comments, and for the link to Mark Braverman's site. I wish you all the best for this and every day of brotherly love. I am really not worthy. I am honored to be called a Jew, in the tradition of the best of God's creation. I believe in the Creator, who tells the believers in the Quran(4:135) : "O you who believe! be maintainers of justice, bearers of witness of God's sake, though it may be against your own selves or (your) parents or near relatives; if he be rich or poor, God is nearer to them both in compassion; therefore do not follow (your) low desires, lest you deviate; and if you swerve or turn aside, then surely Allah is aware of what you do." This is an eternal commandment to put the principle of justice above any and all personal interests. What is justice? That is something that evolved societies put a lot of effort into creating and maintaining. Neil's comments that most Iranians do not follow ancient dictates would probably be surprised to find that all of the basic principles that allow societies to flourish and prosper can be found in the same religious texts he is so quick to dismiss as irrelevant. Decontextualization of revelation is the lazy man's answer to religious interpretation.
Neil, your statement is ridiculous! Speak for yourself, not the world moslem population. The overwhelming majority of moslems do, indeed, 'live.. lives according to the dictates of texts written 1-3 thousand years ago.'
Re: Jeff, "The 'fear' of JStreet...."
Oh. Being a 'political player' is determined by how much money one gives to candidates? You are an honest man, Jeff. Most people who believe what you said wouldn't say it because it means, for example, that most Americans are not 'players,' particularly the poor among us. But this plutocratic sentiment didn't stop you from coming right to the point.
JStreet has provoked, for the first time, serious debate in this country on the nature of America's support, not of Israel, but of Israel's policies toward the Palestinians living in occupied territories, including East Jerusalem. Some may feel that "Israel" is the same thing as "Israeli policies." JStreet does not. That is the difference that so bothers those who do believe in that equivalence. In their view, expressed succinctly by Mr. Oren, there is no room for dissent. It is necessary for the Orenses of this world to de-legitimize in every way those whose views differ from their own. Otherwise, they would have to argue their positions on their merits, and the merits of occupation, incitement of violent vigilante religious fanatics and of theocracy in general are pretty slim, especially when addressed to an American audience. It is easier for them to go the emotional route, a right-wing specialty, to smear the opposition and foreclose honest debate.
'It is easier for them to go the emotional route, a right-wing specialty, to smear the opposition and foreclose honest debate.'
Come on! The level and intensity of smears and slanders by the Left-wing during the 8 years of the Bush presidency were unlike any other previous or current era in American politics.
Re: George -- "Come on!"
First, we are talking about Israel today, not Bush II yesterday. I put that view in because, frankly, I find it remarkable that right-wing Israelis feel free to demean American Jews and even to decide who is Jewish and who is not. I have some bad feelings about people who believe that they can determine who is a Jew.
Read a few of the posts above ours and you will see what I mean. The ones about Iranian money are cute. So are the comments denigrating the President because of his name. How about the issues, folks? Anyone want to talk about violations of international law? Apparently not. Why put in effort when you can coast along on bigotry.
Second, delete that statement if you wish. I think the argument stands without it.
Some more reasonable posts have appeared here and my heart is eased. Thank you, people who taught me to honor intellect. I travel among the subterranean anti-Semitic brewing storm. I assure you that the "stab in the back" self justification will not be directed at Bush for deflecting us from Afghan issue and into Iraq but-- because he will scapegoat the neocons-- it will come at "Zionist interests." It is then that many will recognize the American inability to take responsibility for its own failures (as can be seen with Vietnam). In truth, Israel is indeed our burden but a burden that can do more to modernize and liberate the Middle East from its inferiority complex and rage than US ever could dare hope possible. J Street believes in Jewish power—that’s its only crime. I have no fear that Israelis will be united with Arabs to save the region from blight and despair. Now it is a land of declining natural resources and deeply needs technical modernization for which, as an American, I would gladly pay with taxes. But my fear is the scapegoating that will affect all Diaspora Jews. So far it looks impossible because in the midst of anti-Semitism Jews have shown open mindedness and philosophic leadership in de-racializing and humanizing the West. Your faith has strengthened ours and will strengthen Islam into a faith that is as socially caring as yours by removing from it the rage and the inferiority complex suffered at the hands of Western imperialism. But that requires the kind of Jews that washed away racism from the Anglo-Saxon soul and replaced it with a drive to educate into a sci-tech Renaissance. What goyim cannot recall a favorite Jewish teacher or professor that drew them out of an inferiority complex to eased them into the wonders of intellect? THIS IS YOUR STRENGHT THAT MAKES YOU BELOVED, not the rage of the Haredi Jihadis who damn other Jews as Jewish “kafir” without authority. Some Haredi are being used by a lot of ex-Commies who only live by Lenin's dictum: POLARIZE TO MOBILIZE. As such they define a Jew as a killer so that then these neocons may have hope in their personal "mensch-hood." Notice that the most violent mouth is always attached to the scrawniest of limbs. By contrast, in Israel, where the body is strong, the mind is open and, even as they hate being drawn into war after war, they also study and become scholars of renown. The issue is how to keep them home saving the Middle East from the animalistic bloodthirsty on both sides rather than old men devours the Middle East’s youth in endless warfare. Neither Moses nor Mohammed ever meant for Semite youth to be suicide-killers, nor Blackhawk pilots dropping cluster bombs on family. Like the Haredi, study and debate; it’s the crowning achievement of both cultures. As in the Christian World, it is only when the weak minded and empty souls of mediocrities take control that the honest faithful are polarized into killers. Arabs and Jews were polarized by the British and the Soviets since before the end of WWII. Tom Segev tells a story of "yekes" escaped to Israel who had to work on kibbutzim but preferred to live in Tel Aviv. So early in the morning they would take the bus to the farms. One morning on a bus, a pregnant woman felt contractions. The man sitting next to her screamed out: "is there a doctor on this bus" and six kibbutz "farm-hands" rose up recalling their profession in Germany. The driver stopped the bus and declared: "On my bus I do all the deliveries." It turns out that he had been the chief of one of Berlin's most renown Ob/gyn clinics. Germany’s loss is the Middle East’s gain. Now imagine if the Jews did what they do best (the professional stuff) and the Palestinians what they do best (the farming in the desert). The TWO STATES, ONE ECONMY, SOLUTION would be quite a wonder now with Israel truly "a light onto the [Arab] nations," as the Zionist Founding Fathers dreamed. But, according to historians, Rothschild feared that the Jews were getting lazy, letting the Arabs do all the work on his vineyards; so he instructed the Jewish Agency that only Jewish hands shall work the Jewish land—what a banal origin to a disastrous policy! Thus back to the breach between the sons of Abraham, between two peoples of the same father. What a shame. Still reason can make separate but collaborative much of the sad sandbox called Israel/Palestine if only Jewish traits worked to bring out the best traits of their Arab cousins. However, deliberately polarized through the Cold War, Jews and Arabs were at eachother's throats. This need be no longer as Arabs tire of Jihad and Israelis of a much Greater Israel. That leaves us to worry about the current status of a critical pillar of Western Culture-- Diaspora Jews. There lays the endless struggle to make sure that the equality and openness they taught us to have towards eachother as fellow Americans no matter race, national origin or faith be applied despite our current disastrous state and search for scapegoats to come. Israel is great mostly because of its penchant for education and America is great in large part because of the education its Jewish teachers have given it despite its past prejudices and primitive impulses. We can return and the Middle East can become, especially if you Jews only be Jews....then the rest of us will follow your example as often before. The only weariness is beware of scrawny, puny neocons seeking to acquire "mensch-hood" through mischief.
As President of three SYO chapters in my youth I would always focus youth activities on Hanukah as a time of the power of faith to keep the light of wisdom going when the human world runs out of fuel. For this I was awarded by the rabbis and their councils before reluctantly being asked to leave because of my difference. This year’s Hanukah is such a time when those who struggle to light the menorah one candle at a time face those who would blow out the light for in darkness they feel safer and less restrained. Keep adding those lights for we will all benefit as they increase to eight. Happy Hanukah and thank you for those whose articles and comments in FORWARD always, in the end, prove that Jew is Jew no matter how twisted a few make the path to the Promised Land for most of them. YOU WERE MY TEACHERS FROM MY ROOTLESS YOUTH AS A DP AND YOU ARE TO THIS DAY IN MY TWILIGHT. THANK YOU, SHALOM.
Iran is a land of martyrs for their Faith. But it is youth that also wants everything that God put on earth for them. Side by side, at university after university and at soccer game after soccer game, I watched young Jews, Arabs and Persians sharing the game of life. Who has a right to take that away from any of them? Why make them martyrs before the horrors of the end of life when pain is relieved only by the last breath? The more we know, the more we understand, that's why we need to debate, discourse and meaningful dialogue more and more and more….. Since my youth I have seen MEANINGFUL DIALOGUE ***ALWAYS*** develop for those who stuck at the argument and did not give up on eachother. Common ground is suddenly spotted as if by shipwrecked men at sea. That Iranian girl falling dead from a gunshot last Summer was a wake-up video for all Middle Easterners: YOU ARE ALL TOO GOOD AND TOO PRECIOUS TO GOD TO DIE SO POINTLESSLY! And yet, like the Israeli poem goes, we in old age sent the young out to die settling our old men’s arguments. Per that Israeli poem: An old man daily goes to grieve at the grave of his Israeli soldier son, fallen as a war hero. As the old man weeps, the son’s voice from the ground cries out: do not weep for yourself, father, but weep for me; for I lie here under the cold, damp and dark ground, all my hopes, all my dreams, buried with me because I had to die for your ideological obsessions. As I recall that poem my eyes tear with thoughts of the pain of all the poets Grossman who lose a son in meaningless battle. This poem I would translate into Arabic, Farsi and Hebrew and drop it in the millions from the air onto all the Middle East for all to see how in their wisdom of youth they are of one mind, one hope and determination: TO MEET THE CHALLENGES THAT GOD PUT BEFORE US WHEN HE THREW US INTO THIS ENIGMATIC UNIVERSE. You are all of the same seed and all your brothers that have come to the land of freedom made all your peoples proud. Why not create for those back home a common Jewish, Arab, Persian tapestry of opportunity to be as much as you can by knowing as much as you can understand. We in Europe have spent 2000 years trying to overcome our Greco-Roman avarice for land through blood and finally achieved it. Whenever I go to a European Neurosciences convention I marvel at how all sorts of European nationalities come together to piece together the common science of the brain. Why not it be the same in the expanse of the Middle East? I would add that no matter what Israel does and no matter what commercial boycotts some engage in, any boycott or closed doors to anyone in sports, arts and sciences is a crime against the one gift God gave us: our souls. We evolve henceforth not as bones and flesh but as minds that learn harmony with acquisition of the knowledge known only by the soul. This cannot be so long as Jews slice at eachother, settler-vs-J Street, Arabs and Persians as Sunni or Shias. The crime is that Jew, Christian and Muslims all recognize that they bow their heads before the same God. So if we are all children of God, how dare any of you slaughter another Son of God? We must see a solution through that sacrifices for peace and empathizes for security. As the oldest humans on Earth after the Africans, how can you all refuse the challenge God put before you? Don't age, like me, with too many unanswered questions, paralyzed by regret that you did not seek partners in your search for truth.
I know J Street likes to say that it is representing young American Jews who feel far removed from Israel due to the occupation, but is there any proof of that? Can a J Street supporter please post some research or polling information to back this statement up? Thanks.
Of course, no position speaks for majority as ALL Jews tend to think through their OWN position INDIVIDUALLY-- TRADITION....TRADITION.....like to song in Fiddler on the Roof. THe trick is to keep one's mind open enough to enjoy a good discussion over a nice meal.
Oren isn't slamming J Street because they are out of the mainstream - over 50% of Israelis think Israel should talk to Hamas.
Oren isn't slamming J Street because they know nothing of Israel - almost all principles are Israeli/lived in Israel/are married to Israelis/have extensive families in Israel. Many have served in the IDF.
Oren isn't slamming J Street because it has nothing in common with Israeli or American Jewish views - over 50% of Israelis and American Jews accept or are in favor of a 2 state solution.
Oren isn't slamming J Street because the Likud has a mandate and represents the Israeli people - only 26% of voting Israelis chose the Likud. And frankly, when can anyone remember the last time an Israeli government, left or right lasted out its full term?
Oren is acting in this most un-statesmanlike manner for one specific reason. For the past 20 years the Israeli right and the Likud with the assistance of their friends in AIPAC have dictated and defined the discourse and relationship between Israel and American Jews. For over 20 years American Jews have been fed a story of Israeli unity and Israeli needs and Israeli politics that never really existed on the ground. For the past 10 years, any American Jews who connected Israel on their own terms, have been marginalised. Not surprising really, there is a lot of money and power on the line.
Now someone is threatening to take the candy away. This isn't a grown-up disagreement. This is a temper tantrum. From the same group who drew Hitler mustaches on pictures of Rabin. I remember, I was there.
"THe trick is to keep one's mind open enough to enjoy a good discussion over a nice meal.
I like the way you think, DE. I hope the meal includes a good bottle of wine.
You know what we say though. Get two Jews in a room and you get three opinions.
It is no surprise that "Ambassador" Oren is slamming J street. He can read the writing on the wall. In a few years, J street will move from its fence sitting, satisfy no one with its two state solution, towards universal justice, that mandates Palestine be returned to the Palestinian people. Oren will be disconfitted with young American Jews demonstrating in force outside "isreali" consulates and embassies, finally doing the heavy lifting that for decades has been done by Palestinians. Oren will be discomfited by the cries of Boycott, Divestment, Sanctions that will reverberate from most American synagogues and community centers. Ultimately, Oren will be out of a job, and this is why he calls J street a unique problem
Lets put it another way. The last thing Oren did before taking this position was to write a paper describing "Return of the Zohan" as "anti-Zionist".
J-Street and it's lovely coalition of anti-Israel Jews and Muslims will fail in destroying the State of Israel....and no one believes their phony claims of being "pro-Israel" etc... we, the young generation of American Jews have all read Orwell in high school - so we understand J-Street's cynical manipulation of language - a pig in lipstick is still a pig...
J-Street and it's lovely coalition of anti-Israel Jews and Muslims will fail in destroying the State of Israel....and no one believes their phony claims of being "pro-Israel" etc... we, the young generation of American Jews have all read Orwell in high school - so we understand J-Street's cynical manipulation of language - a pig in lipstick is still a pig...
J-Street and it's lovely coalition of anti-Israel Jews and Muslims will fail in destroying the State of Israel....and no one believes their phony claims of being "pro-Israel" etc... we, the young generation of American Jews have all read Orwell in high school - so we understand J-Street's cynical manipulation of language - a pig in lipstick is still a pig...
ps: shame on the Forward for it's quite obvious choice of unflattering photo of Oren, and PR puff shot of Ben-Ami ---- Journalism 101: just try to disguise your opinionated and biased contempt in the news sections! it's not hard.... save the Israel-bashing for the Forward's opinion section... geez....the Forward could do a lot better than being a Backward rag...
I took the liberty of emailing the Israeli Embassy in Washington to voice my displeasure with Ambassador Oren. As a proud J Street supporter, I believe he should be recalled. If you agree, flood Mr. Oren's office, or that of PM Netanyahu, with emails. Let them know that you don't have to be part of the Arutz 7 crowd to love Israel.
You Lefties are NAUSEATING ! Reading the accursed comments of you "Progressive" snakes is enough to make a decent Human Being VOMIT . You are living modern examples of the "Judenrat Councils" which ASSISTED the Nazis in Holocaust. F^@_ You ALL! YOUR'E FELLOW LEFTIES STILL HATE YOU BECAUSE YOU'RE JEWISH,NO MATTER HOW MUCH YOU TURN ON YOUR OWN FLESH & BLOOD!!!!
Choi, why the venomous rage? Your post reads like something combating racial misogyny. Why not calm down and try talking to them not only as if they are sane but as if you are sane!
You attack them as if any view other than the one you approve of is blasphamy! Who are you to so prognositicate?
First of all, you must know the enemy. There are no more liberals,the last one died in the 1980's.
What remains is a hardcore Socialist movement masquerading as liberal. They have penetrated our Education, Justice, Political and Financial systems. Unfortunately, many of them are Jews, who always had a morbid fascination with Karl Marx. When you place the Israeli/Arab situation in this scenario, you begin to realize what is at stake is Socialist goals of one world government and wealth distribution.
J Street is a tool of this Socialist movement. The physical and/or moral destruction of Israel and the USA have to be high on their agenda. They are succeeding. All you have to do is look at the polarization of societies in Israel and the USA.
Only you can stop these people that will destroy everything you want for yourselves and your children. You must do it verbally, spiritually, and physically, if necessary. We, Jews better realize we can't have a civil discourse with people that would destroy us.
David! I love you. You bring me back to the Jews of my youth. They're all dead now but I would like to think that there's a second generation. Most of my masters were not able to conceive another generation. Hitler and Stalin did not destroy their humanity, kindness, empathy and hope but the stress of the 20th Century's inhumanity ravaged their reproductive organs. When I came to America I met a lot of Jews like them and sat at their feet-- me as student, they as my professors. Even though my masters and their American cousins rarely intermixed, each sticking to their own lodges, I traveled between them carrying greetings. Yes, SIX Jews in a room make for SEVEN opinions. That's why old Jews and old Arabs always seemed to find themselves drinking coffee and endlessly talking to each other. It is only “richtigen” yekes that live and die as statues and monuments to what never really was. Bibbi was educated by that kind of people so I STILL expect great things from him. Hope and Jews is like Hs and Os to a thirsty man.