An enthusiastic review by New York Times food critic Frank Bruni of the newly reopened 2nd Ave Deli last week no doubt triggered hunger pangs, but it also set into motion something more unexpected: a spirited discussion about whether a restaurant open on the Sabbath can still be considered kosher. After a correspondent posed the question to Bruni, the food critic wrote a blog post inviting readers to weigh in.
And weigh in they did.
Some took a hard line.
“A place can’t be certified Kosher if it is open on the Sabbath, plain and simple,” one reader wrote.
Others were more circumspect.
“This is a perfect example of a pervasive dynamic in the Jewsih [sic] community that is largely unknown outside the community. Briefly, there is no universally recognized authority on religious matters in Judaism,” averred a second.
For his part, the 2nd Ave Deli’s mashgiach, or kosher supervisor, Rabbi Israel Steinberg, argued that he was on solid halachic ground.
The restaurant can stay open on the Sabbath, he told the Forward, by employing a legal provision known as shtar mechira, in which a Jewish-owned business is technically sold to a non-Jew for the day and then sold back — much like the selling of one’s leaven before Passover.
Though aware that his position doesn’t pass muster with everyone, Steinberg argued that leniency can have its benefits.
“There’s a lot of people, if they don’t have kosher, they’ll eat treyf,” he said. “Like this, at least they have kosher. If they didn’t have kosher, they’d go in an Italian restaurant.”
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In order to support his pseudo hechser where he says its okay for the 2nd Ave Deli to be opened on Shabbat, Rabbi Israel Mayer Steinberg says,“There’s a lot of people, if they don’t have kosher, they’ll eat treyf,” he said. “Like this, at least they have kosher. If they didn’t have kosher, they’d go in an Italian restaurant.” it makes me wonder if we are living on the same planet. Everyone knows there are numerous kosher resturants in Manhattan that really are kosher and part of what defines them as kosher resturants is that they close on shabbat and Jewish holidays. New York City doesn't need the resturants to which he gives his pseudo hechser. The only leniency perhaps one could make is if the heter mechira resturant was in a small town where that would be the only kosher resturant around for hundreds of miles. Rabbi Israel Mayer Steinberg's litmus test of if they don't eat at 2nd Ave Deli they will eat non kosher Italian is only for people that are truly lazy or not really interested in keeping kosher or both.
Thank you for quoting me. I am the person who wrote: “This is a perfect example of a pervasive dynamic in the Jewsih [sic] community that is largely unknown outside the community. Briefly, there is no universally recognized authority on religious matters in Judaism.” (Sorry for the mistyping.) For one thing, the Orthodox frequently don't agree with each other on kashruth rulings. In addition, the non-Orthodox world generally does not recognize the authority of the Orthodox. I am fine with the Orthodox having any position they think is correct, but making statements like “A place can’t be certified Kosher if it is open on the Sabbath, plain and simple,” reveals a major problem in contemporary American Judaism: We do not agree with each other on what is important in Judaism and what constitutes authentic Judaism. (For example, the note I wrote that was quoted in this piece and which I referred to above also says that among liberal Jews, egalitarian services are considered proper Judasim, while among the Orthodox they are not.) I am willing to bet that this note will result in opposing notes experssing fervent opinions being written to this column, which of course is fine. Nothing they can say changes the fact that Orthodoxy represents a small minority of American Jews (about ten percent seems to be the general consensus and the number in the 2000 NJPS) and it is ridiculous to claim that ten percent of a group can validly insist that their postion is the only legitimate one for the whole group to take.
I am reminded of a kosher restaurant in Czechoslovakia, near the Russian border. Patrons make arrangements to pay for their meals beforehand, and simply give their name to the waiter when they enter on Shabbat. No money is exchanged, and because the food has remained on the stove, it is halachically kosher.
Thank you for quoting me. I am the person who wrote: “This is a perfect example of a pervasive dynamic in the Jewsih [sic] community that is largely unknown outside the community. Briefly, there is no universally recognized authority on religious matters in Judaism.” (Sorry for the mistyping.) For one thing, the Orthodox frequently don't agree with each other on kashruth rulings. In addition, the non-Orthodox world generally does not recognize the authority of the Orthodox. I am fine with the Orthodox having any position they think is correct, but making statements like “A place can’t be certified Kosher if it is open on the Sabbath, plain and simple,” reveals a major problem in contemporary American Judaism: We do not agree with each other on what is important in Judaism and what constitutes authentic Judaism. (For example, the note I wrote that was quoted in this piece and which I referred to above also says that among liberal Jews, egalitarian services are considered proper Judasim, while among the Orthodox they are not.) I am willing to bet that this note will result in opposing notes expressing fervent opinions being written to this column, which of course is fine. Nothing they can say changes the fact that Orthodoxy represents a small minority of American Jews (about ten percent seems to be the general consensus and the number in the 2000 NJPS) and it is ridiculous to claim that ten percent of a group can validly insist that their postion is the only legitimate one for the whole group to take.
For many Jews, making money is more important than keeping the Sabbath. What's the point of keeping a restaurant open on Shabbat if the owner cannot make any income from it? Rabbi Steinberg's use of shtar mechira is weak. Furthermore, it invites ayin hara- where the gentiles would get a wrong impression that it is possible to break Shabbat and keep kosher. Many already believe that the Jews care more about making money than keeping tradition- the 2nd Avenue Deli proves it. If this deli were to keep the Sabbath, I would eat there. But by keeping open on Shabbat, it is sending Orthodox consumers the message that it doesn't need their patronage, that it gets enough tourists to keep it in business.
In Israel, a kosher restaurant can't receive a kosher designation if it is open on Shabbat.
the solution to this is fairly simple: those who accept rabbi steinberg's hashgacha will eat there, and those who don't, won't. but it does beg the bigger question of why there can't be a simple standard of "kosher". instead, there is an insane diversity of "standards", ranging from "kosher-style" to "glatt" to "satmar", and everything in between. even with the best intentions, how can anyone take this mishegas seriously?
the issue isnt shtar mechira (thats actually a separate problem). the issue is the fact the food is cooked (or at least warmed; not acceptable, quality-wise, in a decent restaurant, esp a deli) on shabat. whether or not a non jew does the cooking/warming, everyone agrees the food is unacceptable for a jew to eat.
I am in total agreement with David Mollen. The majority of jews in America are not "glatt kosher" so to speak. We need to define and accept what is acceptable to each faction of the jewish community. If the orthodox prefer not to frequent any store that is open on the sabbath so let them, or rather let them not. They will find the number of places to shop quite localized in orthodox communities and lacking in varity of product. If the Conservatives have a different standard and the Reformed yet another...SO WHAT!!! We each have to be at peace with ourselves and our own definition of devotion to G-d. A wonderful thing about Judism is that we can retain our faith in G-d while finding a comfort level of traditions and customs that we can be at peace with to raise our families. We as jews can accept each others values while not having commonality on all aspects of daily life. Perhaps this is why we have sustained so long even under great adversity. I for one chose to believe that open on the sabbath is not a criteria for kosher. I don't have to purchase on the sabbath. On the other hand why deprive anyone else from shopping when they see fit. Maybe it will help the shopkeeper (jewish or not) to pay the rent or help keep prices lower. I would immagine lower prices would be helpfull to those who are on fixed incomes or limited budgets. In conclusion...Lighten Up! we can keep our traditions and be flexible.
No sector of the Orthodox commmunity at all relies on Rabbi Steinberg's hechsher; the problem is that he can not possibly supervise meats being cooked in restaurants on Shabbos, and that cooking on Shabbos even by a non-Jew is not halachic. A shtar mechira is not the issue here; I think the issue is more that he has no way of ensuring that food is kosher. A Jew can not light the pilot light of the stove (ensuring a minimal standard of bishul yisroel) on Shabbos, nor can meat, vegetables or other foods be prepared as truly kosher without at least minimal Jewish involvement. An observant Jew knowledgable in kashrus must be there to oversee meat, vegetable and other preparations. He trusts the restaurant owners too much- that is the problem. Restaurants that offer Shabbos dining- pre-paid meals, food that is fully cooked before Shabbos, that are reliably kosher without the possibility of any tampering, pose no problem and are a great option for many individuals. Nobody in the kashrut industry, no kashrut experts at all trust Rabbi Steinberg, Rabbi Raphael Saffra of the Tablet K, Rabbi Ralbag of Traingle K, Rabbi Dov Hazdan of Ner Tamid K or Conservative hashgachos.