In an October 2 opinion article, “Time for Straight-Talk About Assimilation,” Jewish Theological Seminary historian Jack Wertheimer weighed in on the controversy over an Israeli television commercial that warned of high rates of assimilation among young Diaspora Jews. The ad, produced for the Jewish Agency’s Masa program, which brings young Jews to Israel for educational and work opportunities, was pulled from the air after being widely criticized by those who felt that it was alarmist and potentially offensive to intermarried families.
Wertheimer, however, wrote that there is “a large kernel of truth” to the ad’s claims, and that intermarriage is, indeed, a major factor contributing to assimilation. He suggested that the furor over the ad reflects a larger unwillingness to grapple with such issues. “Speaking of threats to Jewish survival has become passé,” he asserted.
Wertheimer wrote that those who “reject the language of crisis” in discussing assimilation tend to argue that the key to retaining more Jews is to create more compelling programs. But, Wertheimer maintained, that approach is not sufficient: “If we want to strengthen our community amidst the prevailing individualistic culture, we had better start with straight-talk about our current condition.”
Wertheimer’s article prompted the following exchange between him and Adam R. Bronfman, managing director of the Samuel Bronfman Foundation.
Dear Jack,
You are correct: We must have a national, even an international, discussion about assimilation. However, our first step in having a truly serious and productive conversation must be to ground it in the realities of today. Sadly, you still choose to frame this issue in a context that either does not apply, or simply does not recognize the unique needs, challenges and opportunities of today’s Jewish population.
We must accept that intermarriage is increasingly the norm, and that Jews are now fully integrated and welcomed in nearly every sector of American life, both public and private. Roughly 50% of Jewish students on college campuses come from one-Jewish-parent households. Jews do not marry non-Jews in an effort to assimilate. We do so, as I did, because we fall in love. The true problem lies not in our choice of life partner, or living in a multicultural society, but in trying to find Jewish institutions that will fully embrace our decision to lead meaningful Jewish lives once married “out.”
You argue that creative leaders and innovative programs have failed to engage large numbers of Jews, and that we must move on to new (or perhaps old) solutions. But you fail to acknowledge that strategies of engagement, which meet Jews where they are, have yet to be implemented across wide swaths of the Jewish community. Further, the reach of these programs has not been limited by demand, but by their resources to expand capacity. In most communities, established Jewish institutions still generally speak a language that is foreign to many participants in today’s culture. We live our lives in an integrated society and yearn to share our opportunities for meaningful Jewish experience in a language and environment that is familiar and compelling. All Jews, regardless of background or life choices, must feel welcomed and embraced by the Jewish community.
Twelve years ago, I moved to Park City, Utah. At the time, there was no organized Jewish life there. However, with friends and colleagues, we made the decision to create an organized Jewish community that welcomed all. We designed programs that were engaging and compelling to any person interested in participating. Last June, we opened Temple Har Shalom, a beautiful congregation that has no litmus test for membership. This year, at Kol Nidre, 450 of us chanted the ancient formula together. We now wonder how we will accommodate our rapidly growing membership, and we plan for a vibrant future — a future based on embracing the realities we encounter today.
Jack, if in 12 years a handful of people in a small city in Utah can create a welcoming and vibrant Jewish community, populated by Jewish families of all backgrounds, many of whom are intermarried, why should we believe that such success, with the right strategy, could not happen everywhere?
Adam
Dear Adam,
I welcome your letter in response to my call for a communal conversation about assimilation, even though you have narrowed the topic to engaging only those Jews who are already intermarried. To answer your concluding question, your Park City model is happening in many places: A minority of intermarried Jews is joining synagogues and Jewish institutions. Many synagogues, from Reform to Chabad, and other Jewish institutions eagerly embrace intermarried families.
We part company when you suggest that creating welcoming Jewish institutions is a panacea. Over 35% of intermarried Jews raise their children in a religion other than Judaism. They are not about to flock to shul. And among families raising their children in two religions or no religion, even the most inviting Jewish programs will not convince most to identify exclusively as Jews. So far, only a quarter of adults raised by intermarried parents think of themselves as Jews.
Given the long odds, we need to pay attention to intermarriage before it occurs. You trace today’s high intermarriage rates to the universal reality that people “fall in love.” That puts a very passive spin on
what you yourself go on to describe as choices. Jews of all ages are choosing to inter-date. They actively place themselves in situations where the likely outcomes will be intermarriage. And now a chorus of voices is demanding that no Jewish leaders dare to speak of such choices as inimical to Jewish life, lest we offend.
Rather than being the uniform result of living in an integrated society, intermarriage rates vary significantly across different populations. Modern Orthodox Jews, for example, attend top-notch universities and pursue high-powered careers, but their rates of intermarriage are infinitesimal compared with much of the rest of the American Jewish community. And rates of intermarriage among Conservative Jews are lower than those among Reform Jews. A community’s norms, values and approach to socialization matter.
But let’s return to the issue of individual choices: On the Web site of New Voices, a national Jewish student magazine, a young woman recently blogged about how, despite her past inclination “to date boys of my own faith,” she now feels that doing so is unnecessary because if “your loved ones are healthy and happy, maybe even with a dash of Judaism here and there, something tells me you’ll be fine.”
So here are my questions for you, Adam. What would you say to this young woman, who has not yet fallen in love, about her choices? Is there any value to the Jewish people if she chooses to try to find another Jew to marry? And if so, how can we encourage such choices?
Jack
Dear Jack,
Your argument assumes that all Jews are born into vibrant Jewish communities and then at some point many actively choose to leave. This is clearly not true for a large percentage of the Jewish population. You point out that the rates of intermarriage among the Modern Orthodox are minimal, but so are their rates of having a significant number of close non-Jewish friends.
People date, fall in love and marry those who are around them. For the vast number of Jews who do not live their entire lives in a Jewish bubble, those around them will consist of a high percentage of non-Jews. This is not a circumstance of choice; it is reality.
My argument is not just that Jewish communities and institutions need to be more welcoming, it is also that they need to be relevant and compelling. A generation of Jews is now asking, “Why should I be Jewish?” The majority of Jewish institutions that they encounter do not provide meaningful answers. It is not only the intermarried who are struggling to find meaningful connections with Jewish life; people of all Jewish backgrounds are leaving or avoiding traditional Jewish institutions.
My vision is to make Jewish communities so compelling, meaningful and welcoming that they will be irresistible to those who are not currently engaged in Jewish life. It is not my place to tell this young woman or anyone else whom to marry. Rather, I would seek to direct her to opportunities for Jewish learning and community that will enrich her life and the life of her eventual family.
Jack, your solution is essentially to make Jewish communities so insular that those inside never feel comfortable leaving. This is a strategy that will only succeed in those communities for which it is already the norm, while subsequently serving to alienate everyone else.
Your strategy is one of Jewish inoculation; mine is one of Jewish renaissance.
Adam
Dear Adam,
We both hope for a Jewish renaissance but differ on what ails us. Our society encourages individual gratification even as the ties binding people together continually erode. The distancing of individual Jews from their institutions, Israel and the Jewish people are symptoms of a wider disengagement we see all around us.
You imply that I want to return to a ghetto, but nothing is more insular than the me-centered lives many Americans — including Jews — live. I want to challenge Jews through serious learning and community to connect with the transcendent elements of Judaism even as they live as fully engaged citizens of open societies. I trust that once exposed to the counter-cultural richness of Jewish civilization and teachings, they will find sufficient meaning to choose to partake in a full Jewish life. As with all choices, that means embracing some things and forsaking others.
Whereas your strategy is to embrace unfettered individualism and let the chips fall where they may, I try to educate people about the likely outcomes of their choices. Jews who intermarry dramatically increase the odds of their children disengaging from Jewish life.
When a young Jewish woman announces her intention to inter-date out of the mistaken belief that everything will turn out just fine, I would not hesitate to advise that such a decision would vastly complicate her own Jewish life and the Jewish lives of her children. I would further explain that Jews committed to a Jewish future have not abandoned the millennia-old continuity strategy of endogamy.
Like you, I want us to build compelling Jewish communities. I believe, however, that our institutions often fall short because they fail to send clear messages about what they are and what they are not. By all means, let’s be welcoming. But let’s also be clear about what we stand for.
Jack
This is a very complicated and sensitive issue. The solution is to raise your children in an orthodox environment and provide them with an excellent. religious education The odds are high these children will marry within the faith and probably other orthodox Jews.If you allow your children to interdate you are opening the door to intermarriage. Saying no is hard to do, but .that is what the parent needs to say.If one is intermarried I always show love to the couple and try to encourage them to convert the children if the wife is not Jewish and she does not wish to convert.Conversion should take place only where there is a real desire to practice Judaism .I always show respect and love to all couples.
Adam wants "Jewish communities so compelling, meaningful and welcoming that they will be irresistible to those who are not currently engaged in Jewish life." But what content is contained in that "meaning"?
It's been suggested that Judaism contains within it three components: Torah, peoplehood, and the land (of Israel). I don't know how Adam's community deals with the first and third element, but demographic reality mitigates against his "wonderful" community having much of a stake in that peoplehood.
It's not just that few of them will be "Jewish" by traditional standards; there simply will be too few of them. Reproduction rates among Orthodox are well above replacement rates; Conservative Jews reproduce at a lower rate, and Reform below replacement rates. Jack argues that "Over 35% of intermarried Jews raise their children in a religion other than Judaism." If that's the case, communities like Adam's will survive only by taking in a fresh crop of the inter-married. But just how "Jewish" will they really be, especially into the next generation?
I'm currently writing a master's thesis on identity formation among Lebanese Maronite Catholic immigrants in the United States, one of the oldest ethnic communities in the US. What I've found is the same dialogue as we're having among Jews, just as countless other ethnic/religious/national communities are having while looking at Jews for "best practices."
An interethnic, multilevel dialogue about continuity and engagement is long overdue in the States. Maybe another community which has lived alongside us for decades has come up with a solution, or tweeked an existing engagement tool from our toolbox to make it more effective. So many young Jews are drawn to social justice causes and projects which largely help non-Jews in a Jewish value setting, why aren't we as a community stepping up with more interethnic cooperation that transcends the boardrooms and lobbying circles?
I am troubled by the negative response to Adam’s desire to develop a more inclusive Jewish community and wonder what motives are behind such responses. The motive cannot be a desire to build a stronger more vibrant Jewish people—for even our forefathers recognized the importance of inclusion. Adam articulates the importance of how families (out- and in- married) must “construct” Jewish identity with intention. He is correct in acknowledging with the current rate of intermarriage and the positive impact of assimilation for Jews in America that generation x and those younger will likely continue or increase the levels of inter-marriage. Adam reminds us that we must not look at inter-marriage as monolithic. As the joke goes: “My wife and I are intermarried, she is conservative and I am reform.” The point is that inter-marriage takes on different levels of relevance to Jewish inclusion situated in context(s). As Gary Tobin, of blessed memory, shares in “Constructing a Modern Jewish Identity,” inter-marriage is complex and inclusive of many types of marriages. For example: second marriages of couples with adult children, conversionary marriages, mixed marriages where the non-Jewish partner may continue religious practice or may not have a religious practice. Such complexity makes it difficult to clarify clear outcomes. Tobin’s work suggests that “Jewish identification fares well in conversionary marriages, or at least as well as in in-marriages.” His work also suggest that unambiguous Jewish identification “is likely to fall further” among dual-identity households. What I understand in Adam’s vision “to make Jewish communities compelling, meaningful and welcoming” and Tobin’s findings is the importance of providing a Jewish identity that is part of the individual’s core values—the cultural heritage of Jewish life. Providing multiple doorways towards Jewish identification and strengthening Jewish identification through positive formal and informal Jewish experience(s) is our opportunity to construct the modern Jewish identity and to ensure Jewish life from generation to generation.
I found this exchange fascinating, and as a recent convert to (Reform) Judaism myself, I've not been part of the broader discussion of intermarriage in the Jewish community. However, as an ethnic Armenian (half), I'm very familiar with the topic overall (one that concerns just about every ethnic minority).
The wrinkle with Judaism, of course, is that a non-Jew can become a Jew (you can not become Armenian if you're not born Armenian). As someone who was always drawn to the non-evangelical nature of Judaism, I think a lot of Jews underestimate the potential appeal of their religion to their non-Jewish friends and loved ones. I think there's always the assumption that a non-Jewish spouse converts because the Jewish spouse pressures him/her to do so.
What I've found is that Jews, even if they are secular, for the most part embrace Jewish values, and they usually share those same values with their non-Jewish spouse. The non-Jewish spouse might find themselves more closely aligned to Judaism in terms of a value system than they might think, and since Judaism is a religion of deeds, not dogma, I think the chasm of faith is often not as broad as most would assume.
My boyfriend is non-religious but gets a little exposure here and there with the Reform community I participate in. His attitude towards Judaism improves slowly but appreciably, as he is warmly accepted and invited to practice. He might convert himself one day, but it's clear that if we have children, he will not object to us raising them Jewish, which is, in the end, probably the most important thing.
Can anyone correlate intermarriage with things like Hebrew language literacy among Americans? for example: what is the probability that a Jewish person will intermarry given that they can speak/read Hebrew?
Oren. Observing the rituals such as Shabbat , Yom Tov and Kashruth and attending religious prayer services is important. Hebrew language literacy without observance accomplishes very little in avaoiding intermarriage.Also important is the parents ability to stand firm and demand that an intermarriage not take place.
There are two primary issues in this dialogue left unspoken: Jack is talking about a sustainable model for the next generation and Adam is talking about the here and now. There is a definite tension there. Also, the central force in Jewish life for a variety of vital reasons has always been the family. Adam's vision asks everything of the community and no sacrifice to be part of a family because that is how our family is. What's wrong with Adam's individualism is that Judaism never did and never will survive without its basis in a deeply shared family experience in which a deep sense of sustained, shared identity is the primary center of gravity. If everyone can choose and needs to be won over all the time, there is no mutual commitment and nothing to hold everyone together. All that's left is a Jewish community trying to compete for adherents with facebook, twitter and every other attraction.
Shalom,
It is my perspective that in order to motivate more Jews to practice endogamy, we may have to delve into more sensitive areas of uniqueness, which is antagonistic to the current western ethos, an ethos that these very exogamous Jews sincerely believe in. If Jews don't believe they possess valued unique practical qualities, what would be their motivation to preserve their uniqueness? Thus, I believe emphasis would have to be placed on the accomplishments of the Jewish people and how this may no longer be achievable if intermarriage continues.
Many Jews have embraced Western individualism, seeing it as a fair system that minimizes prejudice. But then, to "throw out the baby with the bath water"?
Regards.
Why do people who are not Jewish, do not want to be Jewish, want me and everyone else to accept them as Jewish. A famous hot dog company says they're kosher but no Jew who calls himself or herself orthodox would eat it. Intermarriage is what it is, non-jews can be fine people but they are not jews, and intermarraige is a stepping out to that scourge called baptism based upon the Jesus fiction, I guess if you make you own rules you can do anything, Jews for Jesus say they are Jews but they are not Jews but want to destroy Jews. Intermarriage proponents the same. Nazis destroyed Jews bodies in the camps but they could not control what jews actually thought. Obama is president but until I see a birth certificate he is a fraud and that is what I think.
Rabbi Dr. Bernhard Rosenberg - I think that you have misinterpreted Oren's excellent question. Hebrew literacy doesn't occur by chance. An American Jew would achieve Hebrew literacy, because he has had a very serious Jewish educational program. Jewish education is the key to having a significant Jewish identity - and only one who has a significant Jewish identity will find it important to find a spouse who shares that identity. Language is an excellent tool in creating group identity. Not having your own Jewish language means that the American Jews belong to another language group that has its own clear group identity - the Americans. The phenomenon of intermarriage is a result of blurred identities; i.e. the Jews do not see themselves as a distinctive group anymore. Don't belittle language. The low standard of Hebrew achievements in the USA points out two problems: (1) The low standard of Jewish education in general, (2) the lack of a social and cultural tool to define a Jewish experience that is separate from the American world.
Yehuda makes an excellent point. However my doctoral thesis proves that knowledge is a catalyst but observance is the key.There are non Jews who read and write Hebrew fluently.
What I always find so interesting about these discussions is how they invariably miss the essential point - spirituality. Jews will remain Jewish if they find in Judaism a transformational spirituality - and will not if they don't. Sociological discussions of what historical/social "factors" need to be addressed simply miss the point. Jews - and everyone else - want a connection to the divine, especially in an individualistic society. Neither Hebrew language, nor "inclusiveness" nor a welcoming attitude by themselves,will help in the long run , desirable as all of these are. The unfortunate fact is that none of the non-Orthodox movements have been able to provide a compelling, transformational spirituality to their members. Only Orthodxy does - and I say this as someone who left Orthodxy due to its' extremely reactionary and right-wing political and cultural views.
The current and ongoing meltdown of Dr. Wertheimer's Conservative movement is an object lesson in what happens when a stream of Judaism does all the "proper" sociological and institutional things, but remains completely clueless about providing a transformational spirituality that addresses contemporary Jews. The movment I belong to - Jewish Renewal - at least recognizes the primacy of the spiritual, some of its' other shortcomings notwithstanding. If there is to be any "renaissance" of non-Orhtodox Judaism in America, it will have to start providing a challenging and transformational spirituality. If and when this happens (and I am quite pessimistic about it) intermarriage will not go away - we do, after all live in an open society - but will subside and will reflect a normal integration of Jews into American life rather than a reflection of the indifference felt by many Americn Jews to the organized tedium of most varieties of American Judaism.
I commend Adam on his efforts in Utah, but wonder if he and, more importantly, his children, also participate in his wife's religious activities? I think those who grow up being half one thing and half another are less likely to strongly identify one way or another. And their identification becomes more diluted with each generation, until they are fully secularized. Like fine wine that is watered down, bit by bit, it eventually becomes indistinguisable from kool-aid. As for "falling in love" with a non-Jew, if marrying Jewish is a high priority, then one won't interdate. People make choices all the time about who to date, such as college-educated or not, why should something so important as religious identity be any less important? Judaism teaches is self-restraint, what more important way to exercise it than in the choice of a life partner.
Truly a fascinating and enlightening exchange, exposing the two sides in the argument. Adam complains that the existing traditional bodies have no answers for those asking why they should be Jewish. In many cases, that is true. My question to him, however, is just what his answer (and/or the answer of his temple etc.) would be: why indeed should anyone want to identify as Jews? Alternatively, why would you, Adam, found this congregation and draw in all those other intermarrieds? Is it simply because you feel uncomfortable in a non-Jewish faith-group, and somehow feel a need to have some religious identification - thus creating a hybrid new "Judaic" faith where you can have your cake and eat it? The common answer of identifying with "Jewish values" is nonsense. No one could ever identify for me just what these are supposed to be. The response of 'the "ethical norms" of Jewish prophets' is meaningless, for practically all of them can be found equally in every other religion, both preceding Judaism and following after it, or, for that matter, in non-religious humanism etc. Thus what makes them "Jewish" values? Moreover, it is picking and choosing, cut and paste, likeable parts from the Jewish Bible that happen to appeal to you -- precisely because they are so universal and part of the general social norms. Does your group, Adam, have ANY criteria for specific Jewish identity or membership in the Temple? Would you accept altogether non-Jewish members who simply like your "humanist" guidelines? Do you have a concept of God, personal God, revelation etc.? Who do you pray to (and why, and for what purposes) - as temple-services would imply? Jack, at least, appears to suggest that there must be distinctive standards. I do not see thenm with Adam or his (and similar) groups. In short, I zero in on the ultimate issue which must be addressed before anything else. Just to have a "social club" for likeminded people does not a religion make.
This whole discussion is, of course, fascinating. I just want to make one comment in response to Rabbi Rosenberg's recommendation that we should raise our children in an Orthodox environment. I agree that doing so would result in much more commitment.
There is only one wrinkle in this solution: essentially every Jew I know finds Orthodoxy unacceptable. The chasm between Orthodoxy and the rest of us is, in fact, another way to see the overall problem.
The vast majority of American Jews today would never embrace Orthodoxy: the insularity, condemnation of homosexuality, limitations placed on women's participation in Jewish practice, and probably most of all the total commitment to Jewish life above all else make Orthodoxy unacceptable.
(And please, if you want to tell me all about the success of kiruv, first check the 2000-2001 NJPS which, among other things says, "Anecodtal evidence of large numbers of baalei teshuva notwithstanding, relatively few Orthodox Jews claim to have been raised non-Orthodox.")
THe issue is exactly this: that the vast majority of non-Orthodox American Jews (who comprise about 90% of American Jewry) have already made their commitment to American life. If non-Orthodox Judaism is to prosper in America, it must find ways to do so within its members' American identity and loyalty.
So, Adam, you chanted the holy "Kol Nidrei" with non-Jews in attendance on the holiest day in the Jewish calendar. How can you possibly view this as any kind of success, in terms of Jewish identity? Intermarriage is unacceptable. Period. Throwing open the doors of a so-called jewish institution that purports to have "no litmus test for membership" does absolutely nothing to promote Torah-true values. Rather, it becomes a haven for the intermarried, and ultimately for same-sex partners. There's nothing wrong with a "litmus test" for membership that rules out non-Jews, homosexuals, and Jews who just plain don't-give-a-darn about proper Jewish observance. Your family's legacy is rife with multiple intermarriages - little wonder you so desperately want to validate this aveira. Adam, you're an intelligent man. Your father didn't make his billions playing with Monopoly money. How could you align yourself with a version of our Faith that isn't any more authentic than the pastel-colored bills that come with the popular board game? GET REAL. Shabbos, kashrus, brachas (blessings), tznius (modesty), emuna & bitachon (faith): these are more than just words to true believers. They are doors that open up pathways between man and God. Open one - learn some Torah. Observe a proper Shabbos. Make the correct brachas over truly kosher food. Don't speak loshon hara (gossip). Try the authentic way of doing things. It takes courage to commit to Torah-true Judaism. So let me ask you just one question: can you handle the truth?
Excellent points, especially Howie's above. What's Judaism about if it's not God (it's a religion -- lots of folks eat bagels and watch Seinfeld). One is generally born into something or choses something. The essential choice is for a relationship with God through our covenant -- God defined it, we try to understand and by doing so appreciate it. If it adds value as we individually see it, then we get it. None of us can tell any of us what God wants. Each of us can search for it and may find it; and yes, bad things happen to good people anyway.
That search becomes a personal expression of it and, with others, we can achieve a collective expression -- but generally don't outside Orthodoxy because there is no clear articulation of Torah being a sacred but hard to understand application of that covenant.
We're still here millenia later, bad guys still try to kill us (a validation for our being God's People), and we've played out the Promise in Deuterotomy -- others watch us and find their path to God (in joy, hopefully). Any religious extremist (ours or theirs) misses the point about every soul's ability to find a connection to the Divine in whatever covenant applies -- New or Old -- each with lots of subsets all certain the other are wrong (or perhaps more to the point -- funding the wrong organizations and "leaders.").
Regarding intermarriage: It's an opportunity if we get off our tzitzis and offer it. Newcomers are generally big time believers, and converted spouses can convert their sleeping spouses with new insights and spirit. No, there isn't an organization that makes that point well -- why do I say so? How do I prove it? Simple. Has this problem been solved by them or even improved?
President Lincoln fired Generals who lost or failed to win. Grant was a winner. The bureaucrats and jealous Generals told Lincoln that Grant was a drunk. Lincoln's response?: Find out what he's drinking and give some to the other Generals. Grant wins battles. Where is our Grant? I see Edgar Bronfman, Michael Steinhardt, Alan Dershowitz and Dennis Prager (with a battlefield commission to Adam Sandler) at the tactical/battlefield level, but we need a field marshall.
Comments? ajcwerfel@yahoo.com
I live in galuta d'galuta... Oregon. The chances that my Jewish children, who are receiving a kind of lite Jewish education with a local synagogue and experiencing Shabbat every Friday night, and who experience occasional attendance at synagogue on Saturday and holidays, will choose to marry Jews is, in my judgment, minimal. I chose to move to a place where Jews are few and far between.
But hey, I've come to see it in "inshallah, que sera sera, whatever will be will be, yehey ratzon" terms. The Master of the Universe will determine these things. The only thing I can do is to take pleasure in living the kind of Jewish life that works for me. If my pleasure in living Jewishly is somehow conveyed to my kids, maybe one or both of them will think of that as they choose a spouse. Maybe. But frankly, it's not very likely. Is that sad for me? A little.
But it's not something I can lose to much sleep over. Am I to run over and put my kids in the unaffordable Jewish day school, or wall them off from the public school and their neighborhood? That''s absurd. I have planted myself here amongst the nations, and here is where my particular Jewish future will find its fate.
I made some choices 20 years ago about what kind of Jewish life I would have, decided against orthodoxy or an intensely traditional life, and understood even then that I was throwing myself open to the winds of culture and chance and life.
God will blow the seeds where he will. The true Jewish neshamas will find their way home, and it is not my role to make the future happen in quite that sense of seeking to determine who will marry whom.
Instead I make the future happen by being Jewish in the present, in my way, as authentically as I can. I call to my children when I make havdalah, but cannot know if they will hear me. Maybe that will affect my children... maybe it won't.... and there is no guarantee that the effect will be to marry Jewish spouses.
I can't provide them with a Jewish social world in this part of Oregon. The best I can do is a few Jewish social connections within a much more complex and larger world.
If Jewish existence is not meant to be, here in galute, here in modern times, then perhaps it is not meant to be.
I don't feel that Jewish destiny is less secure here than in Israel... there are dangers to the future in both places. I think we still live in a galute world, not an aretz yisrael rebuilding the temple soon world, a pre-messianic exilic world. I'm living the exile and it is what it is.
Kol haKavod to Howie. If we want our children to remain Jewish, we have to show them why being Jewish is a good thing. Learning Hebrew for the sake of learning Hebrew is good as far as it goes, but it does little to convince someone that to be a Jew is a good thing. Most likely Howie and I see Judaism differently, but most certainly we agree on this: at its core, to be a Jew is to give thanks go to God. If we can pass that on to our children, we've done our duty.
To Jack Wertheimer:
I wou8ld concur that increased intermarriage is a concern,especially in the light of a dwindling Jewish population. But Jack perhaps part of the fault lies with your own Jewish Theological Seminary.
I have written many times to former senior officers of the Conservative movement suggesting they write articles and speak out on the problem of intermarriage. And the response of one of the senior officers, now resident in Israel was "well. we can't twist the arms of rabbis to compel them to address their congregations on this subject, to urge congregants to take an active interest in introducing Jewish singles, of whom they are aware, one to the other."
I have yet to see an article in the quarterly consaervative publlication on this subject.
Perhaps the conservative rebbetzins could take a hint from the orthdox rebbetzins in Toronto, Ontario, where I live.
These rebbetzins set up a group entiled Sasson V' Simcha, which has arranged a number of venues where singles have met, resulting in several marriages.
If the orthodox rebbetzins can show initiative, why can't the conservative rebbetzins do likwise? All it takes is determination and initiative,
Ladies do your part! Do not remain silent!
If you need more information contact Rebbetzin Jennie Ochs in Toroonto, Ontario Remember, the Jewish population is dwindling!
Charles Abshez(Eibeshitz).
Rabbi Dr. Bernhard Rosenberg - Yes, there are non-Jews who know fluent Hebrew. Actually, here in Israel, the Arab public knows excellent Hebrew. But there is a big difference between learning a foreign language and learning one's own language. When I studied Arabic or when an American studies French - one remains an outsider looking into someone else's world. I believe that the real reason that American Jewish thinkers dismiss the importance of Hebrew is because they view the topic as hopeless. It seems so much more feasible to encourage religious observance than to encourage Hebrew achievement.
Yet, it must be emphasized: Language is the chief carrier of identity. Swedish children do not need to be brought to summer camp to learn what it means to be Swedish. It's just self-evident. Jewish children are brought to camp to experience a Jewish society, to learn what it means to be Jewish - because it is no longer obvious. When the Jews were Yiddish speakers, it was simply obvious that they are Jews who live in a Jewish world and that others are different (people generally don't marry those who are very different than they are).
It would be nice to read your PhD thesis in order to agree or to disagree with your arguments. I don't think that one can say: "I've researched the topic in my thesis" - and that's the end of the debate. I certainly have met people who were observant Jews, and they have abandoned Jewish identity later in life. Obviously, a rabbi would view religious observance as the very center of the world, and his PhD thesis would reflect his views. But there are many factors ripping apart Jewish life in the Diaspora. The lessening importance of religion in the modern world is certainly an important factor. The disappearance of a Jewish society that creates in its own language is also a dramatic phenomenon. Read a Sholom Aleichem story. His characters live in a Jewish world - and this was merely 100 years ago. Today, the world of Sholom Aleichem is foreign to English speaking Jews.
There are those who have certain perspectives on the current intermarriage scenario, and it goes as so:
Historically, Judaism has been an extremely demanding religion. To voluntarily follow the protocols would require certain personalities, those of very high group survival instincts and affinity for group cohesion and loyalty. Over time, those that could not make the cut would leave the community and convert, while only the most qualified would remain. This pattern was greatly intensified during periods of heightened anti-Semitism and pogroms, where the less dedicated would capitulate to Gentile demands and assimilate, leaving only the strongest behind in the Jewish community. These individuals would then do their part by increasing their birthrates to make up for the demographic losses.
Perhaps this is what we are seeing today? Perhaps this pattern should be allowed to take its natural course, where the less dedicated and less instinctually cohesive leave the group, and where the demographic losses are compensated by the much higher fertility of the very dedicated and cohesive Orthodox Jews. The Orthodox would have to be supported, nurtured, and praised for their dedication. Ample resources would have to be secured to maintain this high birth rate.
I understand that the ideas put forth here are controversial, and I apologize in advance if they have caused any offense. And I also understand that these ideas are not supported at all in the Jewish community. But, in the spirit of open brainstorming and debate, I thought I would go ahead and put forth one eccentric view.
I am a Jewish woman, and proud to be so. I had intended to marry a Jewish man. I wanted to marry a Jewish man. I dated many Jewish men and fell in love with a few. Nothing quite worked. When it came time to fell it love, it was a non-Jew. It wasn't what I planned, but it was real love. We've been married nearly 20 years and together for nearly 25. No kids, but that is not related to religious differences. Shocking as it may sound, I just never wanted to be a mother. My husband never converted, but he is more of a Jew than my brother or sister. We celebrate all the holidays together and he knows the prayers. He sees himself as a Jew, even though neither of us observes all of the laws. I would love to be more involved in Jewish community life. I long to be. But few Jewish communities offer programs (or opportunites for involvement or connection) to Jewish adults. Assimilation is going to happen, whether we like it or not. We are integrated into the society as a whole -- and this speaks to the U.S. as a nation and to our metal as survivors -- but we need to be accepted -- no, embraced and involved -- into the Jewish community with which we most closely identify.
Intermarriage is a fact. If we want to get Jewish children out of mixed marriages, we must learn to welcome the non-Jewish spouses and not make the Jewish spouse feel he/she has committed a shandah in the neighborhood. In my congregation, we find that this attitude has created a situation where the children are raised as Jews.
We also need to focus on ways to create more Jews for our Jewish children to marry. We need to welcome converts, even launch marketing campaigns to encourage conversion. We are instructed to welcome the stranger to our midst. We should start doing it.
This has been a very intelligent discussion. I do not have a solution. I agree that orthodox Judaism is not for everyone; however it does work. I am a Rabbi of a Conservative congregation where there is quite a bit of intermarriage, I show love and caring to all. Anti-Semitism is on the rise in the world. A few weeks ago my synagogue in Edison New Jersey had 3 swastikas painted on its walls. There have been 4 separate incidents in my town since Rosh Hashanah. I pray that we will find a way to keep Judaism alive. My parents were products of the Holocaust and I was born in a DP camp. Together we must find a way to make Judaism inviting and inclusive.
Rabbi Rosenberg - It is only natural for a rabbi to view Jewish questions through the lens of "Judaism" (the religion). Moreover, the social reality of American Jews is that they see themselves as part of the American people - hence their Jewish identity can only be in the realm of religion. All this is a giant mistake, of course. The Jews are an ancient people - a nation that sees itself as having its own history, its own language and culture, sharing a common descent and having an affinity to a particular territory (the Land of Israel). If the American Jews will see themselves as Americans whose religion is Judaism, they will have exited the stage of Jewish history. The Jews are a distinct people. That's why you find in the library books entitled "The History of the Jewish People", just as you would find books entitled "The History of the American People". You won't find any book entitled "The History of the Protestant People". The Protestants are a religious group; the Jews are a nation. You're a rabbi, so I assume that it is obvious to you that even the Jewish religion defines the Jews as a nation ("goy qadosh").
There is an urgent need to renew Jewish peoplehood in America. Here Oren's question comes in: There is a need to renew the Jewish language as a tool for re-establishing a separate Jewish sociology. As long as the Jews are part of American sociology, their social trends will ultimately be identical to that of other Americans; i.e, mix-marriage will be the expected norm. Perhaps, it is already the norm.
Here'e the view of a haredi journalist and historian.
Breakoff groups to Judaism have existed throughout Jewish history. There were Samaritans, Hellenists, Sadduccees, early Christians, Karaites. What happened to all these groups? They assimilated into the wider gentile world, they became a different religion, or they remained a separate group rejected by other Jews. The process usually takes at most 200-250 years before the group peters out and separates from the rest of mainstream Judaism.
Present-day Reform and Conservative are just the latter day version of the early Christians. They want to retain the title Jewish and Judaism without accepting what Judaism has always meant and involved. Since their inception, they have constantly been changing their rules and beliefs. Now, 225 years after Moshe Mendelson, these groups are going into twilight. There was never anything in Reform or Conservative Judaism to prevent one from intermarrying a non-Jew, just as there is no reason why a non-Jew of Italian background shouldn't marry one of English background.
Judaism is either a covenant with G-d to accept his Torah and fulfill His commandments including the command not to intermarry or it is just the latest new religion on the block. Why keep it? Why not do your own thing? Why should people care about Jewish continuity? In authentic Judaism, the individual sees himself as the most recent link in a vast chain that began with the covenant made with G-d at Mt. Sinai, and the issue of continuity is pivotal to his belief system. But a Reform or Conservative Jew? They have left authentic Judaism to do their own thing, whatever that happens to be.
The Chofetz Chaim said the the observance of Shabbat is the defining sign of whether one is a Jew or not. According to this, the adherents of Reform and Conservative left Judaism long, long ago. The plague of intermarriage, diminishing numbers, temples closing down, etc. that is hitting them now is just the inevitable ramifications of the decision they made long ago.
There has always been intermarriage. The question was what per centage. When Jews were not allowed to marry non Jews such as by Church decree or the Nazis, intermarriage obviously was greatly subdued. Intermarriage in America and aroud the world is high in countries where anti-Semitism is low. Speaking hebrew has never stopped any Jew from marrying out of their faith if they have fallen in love with a non-Jew. One needs to make a committment to either only marry within the faith, have the other partner converted to Judaism or convert the children to Judaism when the mother is not Jewish. In all cases we need to be loving and caring and always leave the door open for one to become Jewish.
Regarding the comment of David, who addresses the issue of motivating more Jews to "practice endogamy," and to that end, brings up the quest to "delve into more sensitive areas of uniqueness"--There lies the problem. I think David is on to something. Problem is....what we once considered our uniqueness seems to have been a fantasy. Used to be even the Orthodox were known for their love of learning and stand against prejudice and backward ideas. Now, Orthodox Judaism has evolved in an opposite direction. Add to that: the population problem in an already-minority group. As the ultra-Orthodox practice no birth control and mainstream Jews practice responsible birth control, the Jewish community includes fewer and fewer mainstream Jews, who, yes, do find common ground with others, who are not tethered to an insular world. This was inevitable (which is why the Orthodox have tethered their children to an insular world, which was not the intent of our forefathers).
Jewish intermarriage is fundamentally a biological phenomena. It is a collective urge promoting hybrid vigor. We are making choices and selecting partners to create children who are vibrant and resilient people. All new growth and evolution necessarily requires adaptive institutions. Ultimate Being is effulgent, ever regenerating. Love. One's best bet is to back people in love doing loving things. Don't worry, be still and realize that the practice of Judaism will benefit in the long run by letting true love take it's course.
For those who are ideologically orthodox (a goodly fraction of those who practice Orthodox Judaism), the issue of issues is that the non-Orthodox do not accept their approach, which they consider to be the only valid form of Judaism. After that rejection, the details are unimportant (intellectually); assimilation, intermarriage, desecrating Shabbat, etc. are all just interrelated consequences of the only important issue.
For those who look at the Jewish world as it is, causality matters. Jews have always "left the fold" (however that has been defined in cultural context); but as many have noted, it is only in North America in the last 60 or so years has it been possible to be fully a part of one's culture and still happily claim one's Jewish identity.
So the outside world exerts an attraction that competes, sometimes irresistibly, with the attractions of the Jewish world(s). Those who feel that attraction respond to it. "Intermarriage," however reified, does not contribute to that causally. The number of people who would say, "I'd be fully Jewish (whatever that means to them) but my love is Christian and so I can't" is vanishingly small. Intermarriage is one of the many options open to people who already have accepted the challenges of the open society, and many take it without hesitation (or with the minor hesitation that relates to the hurt they know will be felt by parents and grandparents).
The role of the welcoming congregation now becomes critical. Those who "marry out" but retain an attachment of some kind to their Jewishness (I'd say Yiddishkeit, but that might be seen as provocative) will be judged by Jewish institutions. Those that judge them negatively, or condescendingly, or ignorantly will certainly not attract them, and if those were the only Jewish institutions available, as in days of yore, those people would leave the Jewish world, never to return. But those institutions that welcome them and their families will permit them to retain whatever portion of their Jewish lives they want to keep, and preserves the chance that children and spouses will find something attractive in that life.
So causality really is important. Intermarriage does not cause assimilation, period. Available options in society permit intermarriage; intermarriage accompanied by welcoming Jewish institutions reduces assimilation. If you don't like non-Orthodox ways of Jewish life, these are distinctions without a difference--it's all bad. But if you care about Jewish life as it is, it is really important to reject (or alternatively, just ignore) those who want to continue to see intermarriage as a problem.
Yehuda. You are welcome to read my doctoral thesis which was supervised by one of the leading Jewish sociologists in the world. You do not have to agree with it. My world contrary to your statement is not centered around religion; it is centered around my family.. Knowledge without practice and committment does not make for a solid religious experience . Judaism will not survive as a religion without customs and ceremonies. The laws of kashruth, shabbat and yom tov among others were meant to keep us alive as a people.
Rabbi Dr. Bernhard, my friend, it is by the grace and mercy of our G-D that we survive.
For it is written.....Isaiah 1...But rebels and sinners shall be destroyed together; and those who forsake the LORD shall be consumed.
For you shall be ashamed of the oaks in which you delighted; and you shall blush for the gardens that you have chosen.
The truth is that we live in a fully accepting environment. The only way to not be assimilated has nothing to do with intermarriage, it has everything to do with living in a self-imposed ghetto, mentally if not physically, and none of us, except those who are strictly observant, would be willing to do that. Therefore, we will continue to be assimilated unless, Heaven forbid, there is widespread anti-Semitism, or if all of us become observant in the strictest sense.
A city is not referred to as a walled city unless it has three or more courtyards and in each of the courtyards, it has two or more houses.32 [Moreover,] it must have been surrounded by a wall first and then the courtyards were built in its midst. If, however, a place was settled and afterwards, surrounded [by a wall] or it did not have [at least] three courtyards with [at least] two houses [each], it is not considered as a walled city. Instead, its houses are like the houses of a settlement.33" http://www.chabad.org/dailystudy/rambam.asp?tDate=10/14/2009&rambamChapters=3
What is the difference between a walled city and a city with a wall? I am afraid that I cannot properly credit this line of thinking, but essentially, as it was related to me, a city with a wall is a city in which the wall was added after the city was created. Such a city was viable before the wall came into being, regardless of the reason it was later erected. A walled city is one that cannot exist without the wall, as the wall is the very structure and essence of the city. How does this relate to the question at hand, that of assimilation? It relates in this way: Judaism is a walled city. The wall that surrounds and is the essence of Judaism is called the Torah. Without the Torah there is no Judaism. No amount of cultural study, good works, saving the world, or the eating of Jewish food can constitute Judaism without Torah.
It has been said that the Jews kept the Torah for centuries and thus continued to exist as a people. The truth is that the Torah kept the Jews and without it they cease to exist. Without it they lose what is distinctive about them. It is not the loss of their beards, or their sheitels, it is the loss of their neshoma. Today we are faced with ever growing numbers of people who have abandoned Torah for a purely secular life. They have given up their Jewish neshoma and nothing will save it. It is not a matter of having them come to social gatherings or eating latkes or gefilte fish. If a Jew is not a torah observer he will soon cease to be a Jew. A secular Jew is a “jew” who is circling the drain in his identity and sacral affiliation.
There is according to my way of thinking no way to salvage an intermarried Jew whose spouse has not formally and ethically and morally become a Jew. All the talk of reaching out to the intermarried is a waste of time; the intermarried must reach out to the Jews and become Jewish. This is hardly going to happen because once a person has intermarried he has left his faith, no matter what his intentions are said to be. Only if there has been a genuine conversion of the non Jewish spouse can there be Jewish continuity.
The reason for all the intermarriage and the disappearance of the Jewish young is that they have ceased to value the laws of Torah as a way of life. Torah is the way of G-d, and the young Jews, and probably many of the young Catholics and Protestants have no use for G-d's ways. Materialism has taken over the United States and most other countries, but for the Christians there are sufficient numbers so that it doesn't matter. For the Jews we will either renew the faith or most will disappear. Assimilation is an old process for us, it has just accelerated.
To say intermarriage does not cause contribute to assimilation is really disingenuous because the jewish spouse (already uneducated jewishly and assimilated)will be pulled towards the wishes of the christian spouse and towards society's dominant religious practice which in the west is christianity. Acceptance intially or eventually of christianity and baptism will occur to make the marriage and family work and function more smoothly.
To speak to Rabbi Dr. Bernhard, the only protection of the non orthodox, public school educated, assimilated jewish population in an open philo-semitic society rests not in preventing intermarriage because that is a foregone conclusion, (entire families are intermarried) that has devasted jews demographically but intellectually in understanding the scholarship that christianity is not an option, that it is completely mythical, it is completely fictional, that there was never a Jesus, that the New Testament's 450 anti semitic scenes are politically incorrect to use a term which might resonate, that there were no perfidious jews because it is a story that was made up as religious propaganda. Imre Kertesz wrote in "Fatelessness" that the nazis could destroy our bodies but not our minds, not what we thought. So how come Jews, lay and rabbi, scholar believe in the orthodox christian storyline, it is a travesty that the people of the book read so few books, so few apply their minds to think critically and logically with some perspective. I suggest since you are a rabbi The Case of the Nazarene Reopened, Rabbi Hyman Goldin, 1948.
I believe this current debate negates our own history. I do not believe that intergration necessarily leads to assimilation. We need to remember that not all Jews are white middle-class Americans. The Kaifung Jews of China retained their Judaism, yet most of them only have traces of the semitic features left and look Chinese. Jews in India look Indian. Jews that hail from Europe in their family past look European. Now if intermarriage was going to lead to assimilation don't you think Judaism, as a People and a religion, would be dead by now?
To JMK. The intermarried Jews that I know have not accepted Christianity . The problem is that their Judaism is not strong enough to dissuade them from marrying out of the faith. Today it has become fashionable to intermarry. Their friends do so and therefore they believe it is acceptable.I have read Rabbi Goldin's book and other books dealing with Jesus the Jew.
P.S. One should read: We Jews and Jesus by Rabbi Sandmel, Jesus the Jewish Theologian by Young, ,A Jewish Understanding of the New Testamnent by Sandmel, Jesus the Jew by Vermes,The Birth of Christianity, by Carmichael, Jesus of Nazareth by Klausner.
Rabbi Dr Bernhard, Jesus the Jew? Sorry that is a life that can only be teased out of the New Testament under the conditions of rejecting major and well supported themes of critical analysis. Th only opening is if you accept a well disputed theme of Pauline study and the relation with James and a Jerusalem Church. Even then the remains are a traditional jewish messiah king figure that threatened roman authority, that is not traditional storyline, which any rabbi I know of accept to his and own communities disgrace. Christianity is fictional.
assimilation ------- If I want my children to be jewish I must send them to a 'school????????' where they will learn that god doesn't care about working conditions, especially in slaughter houses, filth and children are ok......... ONLY which half of the animal I eat. Then he can learn to say each morning, thank god I am not a female...... (anyway females are only for breeding -- are they really jews ? no circumcision He can also lean to MUMBLE a set of 15th century prayers as fast as possible so that they are meaningless to him and anyone else
Now if he passes all these tests he van wear a black 'borsellino' one size too small
Intermarriage is not the cause of assimilation. Intermarriage is the result of assimilation. Once we understand that, we can move on to how and why we are all assimilated in one way or another. Historically, we have always adopted the culture around us to a greater or lesser degree. Assimilation isn't "bad". In many ways we have been strengthened by it. Judaism has extended itself. I can see how it is similar to Christianity in that respect. The Amish are very different from Catholics, yet they are both Christian. The same thing is happening with Judaism. Chassidim are very different from Independent Progressives, yet both are Jewish. Is there anything wrong with having more options in order to keep our basic beliefs yet exist peacefully and loveingly in the larger society? The alternate is to emphasize insularity, distance and separation, which is kind of impossible.
To Henry Gottlieb,
I don't see how you could have packed any more negative stereotypes into one post than you did. If someone who is not Jewish said what you did, they would be accused of anti-Semitism. If you're going to engage is such negative stereotyping, perhaps you might mention the countless acts of kindness done daily by observant Jews, the observant Jews who treat all people as created in the image of God, the observant Jews for whom the prayers really mean something, etc. Now if you say you've never seen that, then I would say you need to get out more, stop stereotyping based on things that make headlines in the Forward, and start actually speaking to people. Otherwise, you are even more intolerant than I assume you would claim the Orthodox to be.
Can't we just get along. Jesus lived as a Jew and died as a Jew. I am sure there are those who have other opinions, so be it. Regarding orthodoxy, people are only human. The good, the bad and the ugly. If you are not a mensch , how can you say you are G-d fearing.
Jesus was a jew, I looked into him, and he was human, not G-D. I think the message was good, but what became of what he said, turned into pagan rituals and pagan days. This is not good, and not of G-D, for G-D tells us not to mix.
Mankind, took control of the message and like anything mankind does control----turns bad. The lie and deceit, grew, and most all the world sees him as their god.
We are to turn and become sons of G-D, putting sin out. But we are not G-D. Their is only One G-D. David, was called a son of G-D, but David was not G-D.
G-D speaks, and tells us we have walked in error, get we don't look at this.....we are stiff and our pride comes up and the love for rituals and customs of our familys----we have family customs all over the world. We would not more give them up than a Catholic would give up Charistma and the tree.
Are we to fear them.....no,.for it is written....Jeremiah 10...Hear ye the word which the LORD speaketh unto you, O house of Israel:
Thus saith the LORD, Learn not the way of the heathen, and be not dismayed at the signs of heaven; for the heathen are dismayed at them. For the customs to the people are vain: for one cutteth a tree out of the forest, the work of the hands of the workman, with the axe. (their christman tree.)
They deck it withe silver and with gold; they fasten it with nails and with hammers, that it move not.
They are upright as the palm treem but seak not: they must needs to brorne, because they cannot go. Be not afraid of them; for they cannot do evil, neither also is it in them to do good.
Forasmuch as there is none like unto thee, O LORD; thou art great, and thy name is great in might.
who would not fear thee, O King of nations? for to thee doth it appertain: forasmuch as among all the wise men of the nations, and in all their kingdoms, there is none like unto thee.
But they are altoghther brutish and foolish: the stock is a doctrine of vanities.
Did you read it-------BRUTISH AND FOOLISH-----THE STOCK----THE DOCTRINE OF VANITIES.
So very sad that a Rabbi and a scholar (almost all Rabbis at that) essentially are believers in christianity. Do you feel special that the fictional story with its 450 anti semitic demonizing morte cristo scenes that the catholic hilter used to put jews into ovens (not to take away all the other horrors inflicted upon jews) includes us? I don't need their attention, jews do not need their attention? Read the scholarship or read more of it. Jesus was not jew, there was no life, no death, no perfidious jews. Jesus never existed. Human beings can be such pratts, Bush must still be looking for the WMD's, the same OJ is still looking for the real killer. People are just sheep, Rabbi you know it is wrong intellectually to discourse in favor of christianity, you read some critical studies. Let's get with the program. Jesus NEVER existed. The New Testament is FICTION.
what ever Jesus was....if he did exist or didnot...G-D knew of the effect it would have, and the pagan day, and the tree....for it was given Jer. to put down in Jer. writtings.
Forget the past, look ahead, see what G-D holds out to us now in this time, for it is written Jeremiah 30....And their noblies shall be of themselves, and their governor shall proceed from the midst of them; and I will cause him to draw near, and he shall approach unto me: for who is this that engaged his heart to approach unto me? saith the LORD. And ye shall be my people, and I will be your G-D. Behold, the whirlwind of the LORD goeth forth with fury, a continuing whirlwind: it shall fall with pain upon the head of the wicked.
The fierce anger of the LOTD shall not return, until he have done it, and until he have performed the intents of his heart: in the latter days ye shall conside it.
The world is about to change....For it is written....Psalm 102....When the LORD shall build up Zion, he shall appear in his glory.
He will regard the prayer of the destitute, and not despise their prayer.
This shall be written for---- the generation to come:----- and the people which--- shall be created ----shall praise the LORD.
who are these people which ---shall be created?
Jeremiah 31...How long witl thou go about , O thou backsliding daughter? for the LORD hath created a new thing in the earth, A woman shall compass a man.
JMK I am a Rabbi who also happens to teach Jewish history. My program is fine . There is a historical Jesus and a spiritual Jesus. I have no interest in debating you. I teach Judaism not Christian dogma.It is your right to disagree but I do not believe you own the territory of historical truth.
Did I say anything UNTRUE???????????
That Rabbis Orthodox Conservative Reform Reconstructionist even some dodgy smarmy "Messianic" cannot agree on Moses but all can find agreement in Jesus is and has been the intellectual catastrophe for the Jewish people in this post Holocaust era. Assimilation and intermarraige and conversion have NOT devastated the American Jewish community because suddenly Jewish men are hot for fit asian women, it is because all (follow the leader) Rabbis have failed the community intellectually with such an ignorant,irrational, uncritical, really pathetic, relativistic, cowardly, effeminate idealogical approach to confronting the christian religion. I personally feel totally snookered, completely betrayed by the Rabbinical profession, that I do not want to go to a schul ever again until this rubbish is purged from the minds of clueless Rabbis and then from their congregants, it is an apostasy to accept any part of its fiction, even just for intellectual self respect. Six Million Jews died for this, Rabbis who believe in a clearly fictional book with 450 anti semitic scenes, they must be turning over in their graves. This letter is dedicated to the Jews of Zembrova and Novominsk. People with such humanity and heart they don't make anymore, gone but not foregotten.
To Henry Gottlieb - No, nothing you said was untrue. In the same way, I suppose, that one could say some incredibly negative things about the African-American community or the Hispanic community. Those things would be "true" in the sense that they exist in certain parts of those communities. But to say that it is true across the board, or to give the kinds of examples you did as "this is the way the Orthodox community is" is definitely UNTRUE. If you really think that, across the board, kids who go to Orthodox schools learn "that God doesn't care about working conditions, especially in slaughter houses,etc.", or that, all Jews mumble prayers as quickly as possible and find them meaningless (you obviously haven't been to my shul or many others where you will find any number of people as intensively focused on their prayers as any Buddhist monk-and incidentally the majority of the prayers way pre-date the 15th century), and if you think that, across the board Orthodox Jews look down on women and see them as "only for breeding" (and the prayer to which you alude can be and has been understood a number of different ways by traditional sources--you've just chosen to understand it in the worst way possible) - if you really think all that, then you are choosing some selective examples to stereotype an entire community. What I am saying is that what you are doing is 1) inaccurate - this doesn't describe the vast majority of the Orthodox community at all; 2)highly intolerant--one could easily find enough examples within the liberal Jewish community to paint an equally negative stereotype--that would, rightly, be regarded as intolerant--it's just as intolerant when you do it; and 3) a regrettable display of prejudice - if you choose to stereotype an entire community and generalize like this, I think that if you open up Webster's you will find a close correlation between what you are doing and the definition of prejudice.
Henry - maybe you should get out into the world a bit and meet a lot more Orthodox Jews. You may be surprised to find that they don't all exploit foreign workers at Rubashkins, that many care deeply about their fellow Jews whether religious or not, that many do some incredible acts of kindness that would make you ashamed you ever posted what you did, and many approach life with incredible sincerity and actually question and struggle with spiritual issues in an open and honest way. You could of course ignore all this, and go on spouting your invective to anyone who will listen - but if you do, please do us all a favor and drop the "liberal, open-minded, tolerant" label that you no doubt wear - the attitude you've displayed is anything but.
JMK. I do not understand what you are talking about. What does this have to do with intermarriage or assimilation?.Stop attacking the Rabbis who , by the way, do not agree regarding the status of Jesus.I am certain you can find a Rabbi who will agree with you. What does this have to do with praying or going to the synagogue.We do not pray to Jesus.
Conservative Judaism has a number of inherent features which cause people to not have a strong enough commitment to Judaism to avoid intermarriage. These include the rejection of the canonical belief that the Oral Torah originated at Sinai (as opposed to being made up by Talmudic sages); the reshaping of numerous halachic rules to conform with the secular Western feminist idea that there must be no distinction whatsoever between men and women (mechitza, addition to the Amidah, ignoring the laws of negiah, ignoring the laws of tzniut and to a large extent the laws of niddah); the lack of emphasis on faith in God and devotion to holiness and Torah; an overemphasis on academic critiques of religious knowledge, such as biblical criticism. In this environment of course there is going to be much less respect for Jewish law and Judaism, since its basic truth is questioned and it's seen as something that can be altered to conform with political views and contemporary secular ideologies (not to mention practical conveniences -- driving on Shabbat!). When there seem to be no absolutes, it's hard to tell your kids, you're not allowed to date, much less marry, non-Jews -- period. Moral clarity and determination is needed to prevail against assimilation.
Orthodoxy may be unacceptable to a lot of people for political or hashkafic reasons, but if it's the only way for the Jewish people to continue to exist, to have Jewish grandchildren (and all the good-quality evidence shows that it is), then it's the only option. Think of all the Catholics (I've met many) who think women should be priests or that homosexuality should be allowed! But they stay Catholic! You don't have to agree 100% with the movement you join (and besides, many Modern Orthodox Jews, including some balei tshuvah, are quite liberal). But if it's not shown itself capable of sustaining the existence of the Jewish people (by preventing intermarriage), then it's not even an option.
Rabbi, yes I know Rabbis do not agree with me and the scholarship, that is the problem. It is a problem that something that is so much crap and nonsense and anti semitic is accepted by the intellectual leadership of the Jewish world, it is a shande. It absolutely does have to do with assimilation and intermarriage because people must be engage intellectually, it is the responsiblily of Rabbis to engage their minds but how can they when they have abandoned critical thought themselves. What does this have to do with going to schul, well I am not going because it is a disgrace to be associated with people who are friends with my haters whose basis for this hate is a complete fiction. As for praying to the man god fiction, you can not rightly pray to someone who is as mythical as Zeus and the book where you encounter the myth is 100% fiction.
In fact, it IS possible for a Jewish organization to be intentionally open, inclusive, welcoming and offer deep spiritual experiences to Jews and those becoming Jewish.
Mayyim Hayyim Living Waters Community Mikveh and Paula Brody & Family Education Center (http://www.mayyimhayyim.org)was created, in great part, to honor and celebrate the act of conversion to Judaism. This requires that families of all backgrounds feel safe and cared for - even before they walk into the door. Today a family came to celebrate the conversion of a man who'd been living Jewishly in a Conservative congregation for many years, married to a Jewish woman.
His family, both the Jewish side and the Christian side were here to mark this occasion. They came to offer him blessings and to be a witness to this significant life transition, not just in his life, and not just in his family, but for the Jewish people as a whole.
This man's journey (one of 1300 who've converted here since 2004)was supported by his family, his congregation and the Greater Boston Jewish community. Mazal tov to us all.
When the doors are open, Judaism can be at its best.
The initial exchange of letters between Jack and Adam were instructive and enlightening, providing all of us with a thumbnail sketch of the devolving American Jewish Community. To some degree I enjoyed reading some of the posts but, some how they all got caught up in the nomenclature of a culture as though it were on the precipice of extinction.
I got the distinct impression from the posts that Judaism as we know it is soon to be over. It confirmed what I had believed in the 1970's and still believe today: those who wish to identify themselves as Jews based upon religious truths alone are doomed to assimilate out (with the exception of th eharedi community, who will remain an anomaly). Judaism as a religion is historically foreign to us. Reform Judaism created that fiction as a way of integrating into the larger Christian community. The rest, including the Orthodox went along with the erroneous idea that Judaism was a religion. We are not a religion, we never have been; we are a people.
We are a people who have been defined in our sacred texts as an "am".Reading prophets teaches us that we are a people short on ethical standards. Our prophets were willing to sacrifice the lip service of religious observance in exchange for a sincere value system predicated on ethical behavior. As such it is our national responsibility to become fluent in our heritage. Religion is but a very small component. Those who believe in an active creator and "transformative spirituality" ought not to exaggerate its place within the hierarchy of Jewish cultural relevance. Language, literature, history and above all the love of our land is what makes us vibrant and relevant.
It appears that people like Adam or Jack have developed methodologies of achieving these lofty goals and they are to be commended. No one has a right to determine the Jewishness of one person or another. In the story of Ruth, Naomi was rendered Jewish because of her actions not because of her belief system. Ethiopian Jews should never had to endure the humiliation of conversion in Israel. They were Jewish by virtue of their indomitable spirit and determination to reach Israel. Anyone who has determined fro himself that his fate is wrapped up with hthe Jewish people ought to be welcomed in, made to feel comfortable.
I believe the Jewish community in America obsesses much too much on assimilation and intermarriage. Those Jews who identify strongly as Jews ethnically and take their cultural identity seriously, will survive and thrive as members of a people regardless of whether their spouse is "Jewish".
Rabbi Shael Sieg.
Only G-D can determin the Jewishness of one person or another, only G-D can go into our hearts and minds.
Some of us keep our culture and rituals higher than G-D. blessed are you O LORD our G-D, King of the Universe, who Creates the fruit of the vine. Enriching our life...with worshiping him and praising him.
My pray for Israel is, that the world will say "let your people be my people." Israel is the key to unleashing G-D'S blessing. G-D'S lamp and mankind's light are the mysteries of the menorah. The symbel that was designed by G-D himself. He gave to the people as a deminstration of the light of his word that enlightens the path of those who open their hearts and minds. Blessing has always been G-D'S plan for humankind.
Today many scholars prefer to aviid the term "israelites" when referring to the people living at these highland sites. Some resort to the term proto-Israelites} sence they agree, on the one hand that the later offspring of these settlers were Israelites, but on the other hand argue that we do not really know how these settlers viewed themselves. People can have more than one identiy even group identity at any given time.
We are all pilgrims on our way to G-D. The word of G0D supports our inner self during the journey "of life" some find death, who get off the path. Our relationship with G-D is the key in our difficult journey, the embrace of His strong arm holds us up, when we fall short in our walk in unity.
The LORD is my Rock, my Fortress, and my Deliverer; my G-D in my Rock, in whom I take refuge. He is my Shield and the horn of my Salvation. Ps.18. Glory in His holy name; let the hearts of those who seek the LORD refoice. 1 Chronicles `5.. I spouse, could see the goodness, and desire to have it also. One should become a light, like G_D is to us..
To Rabbi Shael Siegel: You are partially correct. Yes, Jews are a people, but a people with a specific purpose - one can call it religious (although the Torah doesn't actually have a word for religion), one can also call it legal/ethical/moral. But presumably if all Jews hypothetically converted to Christianity tomorrow but remained an Am - yes, we'd still be a people, but we would have lost our purpose.
You are right that the religion without the peoplehood doesn't work (although if Haredim are an anomaly, then they are an awfully fast growing one; also, it would be wrong to lump all Haredim together - there are many who are passionately committed to Jewish peoplehood). But at the same time, emphasizing the peoplehood at the expense of the religion doesn't work either.
The examples you gave actually support the idea that you need both. Yes the prophets spoke of moral standards and actions and very clearly said that the ritual without the ethical/moral doesn't mean anything. But if you look at the prophets (Isaiah for example), they also speak very clearly against the trampling of the ritual - for example transgressing Shabbat or violating kashrut.
The example of Ruth that you gave is particularly instructive. The most famous thing she said is "Your people will be my people and your God my God." She is joining a people, but a people in a particular relationship with God - which has some very clear religious implications. Both halves of her sentence are important, and deleting either one makes it incomplete. Peoplehood without religion is just as much of a dead end as religion without peoplehood.
Rabbi Shael Aiegel, I truely believe, the orthodox people are the most G-D fearing people, who tremble in awe of G-D.
But when I read scripture, I tremble for all of us. The voice I hear is not happy with us, I have lived with christians, and see how they think and some are truly devoted to a god, that is not there. How do I say I love them if I do nothing to make them see G-D.
The world can not see G-D with us, because we are walking in error, and G-D'S face is turned. Change must take place, for G-D to turn again to us.
We cannot stay as we are....we must look deeply, at our selves and ask G-D'S help in turning us around. G-D is at war with us, he is on the move, I read it every day, and then hear it in the news on TV.
We are all living in a dead world, ---the night and day of the living dead---
Peoplehood without religion is just as much of a dead end as religion without people hood.
Chanya, my friend, I donot understand it! With out the One True G-D all are dead. Dust to dust , ashes to ashes, Spirit to spirit.
Religions the light of them is so faint and flickering that these creeping things of darkness have come out into the open. This would be what would worry me what would come into my family. I would care more that a son or daughter would marry a mate with a pure heart.
A clean heart will seek G-D, and the prayers of a family for one unsaved will be heard, our G-D is all powerful, and his mercy and grace endures forever. He loves to give us blessings.
Dear Co-Religionists:
The time has come that we as Jews look at ourselves, and decide who we are and what does the future hold for us. I read the New York Times wedding announcements and am dismayed at the amount of Jews and Non-Jews whom are getting married.I wonder especially; who have the title in the paper of Rabbi, are joining these couples. It seems to me that if you want to marry someone, it is your own business and you should keep it to yourself. But to tell the world that you found someone that is not of our faith to marry. Why, we have enough troubles in this world without seeing the elimination of our people by ourselves. Assimilation is one thing, but we as the only ancient people will not longer exist if we don't solve our own problems.
John Venture ( a Roman Jew), my friennd,
It is written in Isaiah 41..."present your case," says the LORD. "Set forth your arguments," says Jacob's King.
We allways submit our prayers to the will of G-D, for G-D is the ultimate judge, he will have the last word.
Our prayers are decrees, like prayers, are spoken petitions to G-D. But more than that, they are commands for the will of G-D to be manifest. When we decree, we are scientifically commanding G-D'S light to enter our world for alchemical change. We are directing G-D to send his light and his angels into action for personal and world transformation. That is why we were set apart, as a nation of holy priest. Yes, G-D already knows our problems and how to take care of them, but G-D has given us a free-will. He will not inter in unless invited.
So, where is this place we invite our G-D? It is written in Psalm 51...Behold, thou desirest truth in the inward part; and in the hidden part thou shalt make me to know wisdom.
The inward parts, our hearts and minds, but the ---hidden part--- is the ---Dwelling place of our G-D. For it is written...Psalm 90...LORD, You have been our dwelling place throughout all generations.
We are children, born of the flesh, we are placed by the spirit of G-D who made us, of the earth. Ancient people, were made the same, placed down in time that was created for that generation of people. Old New----the same. Time was created to contain mankind, not G-D, He is past, He is now, and what is to come, He is timeless.
Remember Job...nothing could be done to him unless G-D will it. Same with us, we should have not fear.
Holy children, of G-D are birth below and above these are the holy children, called the sons of G-D, and on them is written the name of their Father.
For it is written...Job 33 The Spirit of G-D made me (flesh, below, death) but the breath of the Almighty gives me life (above, a holy child is brought forth, into the household of G-D, in the kingdom of G-D and given the name of their Father.) Look at this scripture again....The Spirit of G-D made me but the breath of the Almighty gives me life.
The holy union. G-D wants to have children that do his will. The perfict gift is from G-D and it was given us, our free-wills to be united with G-D Almighty. For it is written...He provided redemption for His people; He ordained Hid covenant forever holy and awesome is His name.
We were turned out of the garden and covered with skin, due to sin. We rejected the tablets of stone written on both sides with the law of G-D, all do to sin.
It is written...Psalm 118 The Stone the builders rejected has become the Capstone; the LORD has done this, and it is marvelous in our eyes.
This Stone, is our ture foundation, the true temple that G-D has provided for us....it has always been their, we had just needed to turn out sin to inter in. The angel guides the gate will lead us in, when we put sin out.
For it is written....Genesis 24...."To your offspring I will give this land', He will send His angel before you....
Abraham, is the father of all nations, The offspring of him are those like their father walk blamless before G-D in unity. The land, is above, and will be the new earth.
What is it that G-D wants of us??? SET ME AS A SEAL UPON YOUR HEART is this not what He wants of us?
For it is written....Psalm 51...Behold, thou desirest truth in the inward parts: and in the hidden part thou shall make me to know wisdom.
The inward parts, our hearts and minds, written on by the fire that burns in the hearts desire of G-D for us, to give our free-offering, the perfect gift to Him, so that the Spirit of G-D who made us, can in union let us know G-D in truth and in wisdom, in the hidden part. The garden, that we were truned out from, our true foundation, the land we walk in unity with our Father, whos name we are given-- "G-D with us".
Think, a seal is inscribed with the owner's name---our Father name, written on our hearts and minds in union. Seals were used in ancient world to identify authenticate and protedt the contents--the law---written on both sides--above and below--will the will of G-D be done in a holy child that is brought forth into the hidden part, the dwelling place of our G-D. Sin can not enter in. We are become the written documents and the vessels covered with skin.
When we turn, we are now make in the mirror image of our G-D, Man.
For it is written...Isaiah 9....For unto Us a child is born, to Us a son is given, and the government will be on His shoulders.
Job 33...The Spirit of G-D made me(below, flesh, death) but the breath of the Almighty gives me life.( above, a child is given)
That child, male or female turns now in the image, they were created to be in. /For it is written....Zechariah 14 Then the LORD my G-D will come, and all the holy ones with Him.
Remember this....Abraham, was provided, by G-D the time (a day-s in our life time) a place (in our generation on earth) and a sacrifice (a child, will give the perfect gift from above---the free-will--in unity with our G-D) A-so-ni Yeer-eh So Abraham called that place The LORD Will Provide. And to this day it is said, "On the mountain of the LORD it will be provided." Genesis 22. G-D is on the move....due to our prayers. Psalm 144 Praise be to the LORD my Rock, who trains my hands for war. For it is written...Exodus 15 The LORD is a warrior; the LORD is His name.
Isauah 42...I am the LORD; that is MY Name! I will not give My glory to another or MY praise to idols. Leviticus 22 Do not profane My Holy name.. the only fear we should have is.....a woman is given many seeds, but nevertheless only few come to full turm.
I'm an 85 yrs. old Jew, born Jewish, married Jewish, so are my children and grandchildren. All of us have an Israel experience and speak fluent Hebrew. I'm contributing for decades to my local Jewish Federation, to Jewish Family Services and some national Jewish organizations. But I was never a member of a synagogue. Sure, I use a Chabad rabbi for Barmitzvas, weddings and my son will use him one day for my funeral. I'm as Jewish as a Jew can be. I would be greatly disappointed if one of my grandchildren would choose a non-Jewish wife. But I probably still don't satisfy Rabbi Dr.Rozenberg's expectations of a genuine Jew.
A lot of this back and forth boils down to an important catch 22 for the non-Orthodox movements... The non-Orthodox movements (Reform, Conservative and the others) stress Universal ideals such as "the essential thing is to be a good person..." We are all created equal - it is wrong to make differences between peoples or even different roles for the genders to the point that being ANTI-Racist and following a liberal agenda is MORE IMPORTANT than keeping Shabbat and Kosher- AT LEAST THAT'S THE MESSAGE I GOT AND OTHERS GET GROWING UP IN A CONSERVATIVE SYNAGOGUE- So if the most important thing is to be a good person and being a good Jew (one who keeps mitzvot) is secondary than when we look to get married we find a Good person!!! If they are Jewish better but if not- it's not the end of the world... So if that's the ideology of Conservative and the other movements (not in theory but more importantly in terms of how it is practiced and perceived) the Conservative Leaders like Jack can't start preaching inter-marriage is bad without sounding oh so racist. THAT WAS THE PRICE THE CONSERVATIVE LEADERS ARE NOW PAYING FOR WATERING DOWN JUDAISM INTO A POPULIST UNIVERSALISM- SURE YOU GET MEMEBERS IN THE SHORT RUN BUT IT'S NOT MADE FROM THE SAME JUDAISM THAT LASTS THROUGH THE CENTURIES...
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