Thanksgiving has always been my favorite national holiday. In fact, although I am a religious Jew (or rather, because I am a religious Jew), it rivals my favorite Jewish holidays for my affection.
It does so because it is quintessentially American, it is deeply religious without being denominational and it is based entirely on one of the most important, and noble, traits a human being can have — gratitude.
Gratitude is the foundation of both happiness and goodness. Neither happiness nor goodness is possible without gratitude. If all human beings were grateful, there would be little evil in the world.
It says an immense amount about America and its value system that it long ago began, and later officially enshrined, a national holiday just for the purpose of giving thanks.
It speaks to the centrality of God in American history (something many Jews, being deeply secularized, may not be happy about, but which is nevertheless a fact), and it speaks to the optimistic, happy and goodness-producing spirit that has been at the core of what I and others call Americanism.
American Jews should celebrate Thanksgiving with particular enthusiasm.
First, and most obvious, nowhere in Jewish history have we had it is as good for so long as we have had it in America. No individuals or groups have better reason to celebrate Thanksgiving in America than we Jews.
Second, Thanksgiving is the one day of the year in which we Jews celebrate the same religious holiday with the rest of America. By definition, Jews do not share a religion with the non-Jewish majority of Americans. But we do share our God (the God of Creation and the God of Israel) with the Christian majority. And this holiday alone affirms that.
Third, while all Jewish holidays are family-based, the Christian majority has only two national holidays that are family-centered — i.e., holidays in which a multi-generational meal is expected and for which people travel to be with their family: Christmas and Thanksgiving (the latter is the busiest travel time of the year). Obviously, while Jews may honor their non-Jewish friends’ celebrations of Christmas, Jews do not celebrate Christmas. So Jews share with the rest of America only one day a year of a family-based holiday — Thanksgiving. This day therefore joins us with our fellow Americans in a unique way.
True, some ultra-secular Jews may be uncomfortable with the idea of invoking God during the celebration of a national holiday. But even if one is opposed to thanking, or simply cannot thank, God, he should thank fate or luck or his ancestors for moving here, or the founders of this blessed country. Only good can come from having people get together to declare their gratitude as Americans. Indeed, given the overwhelming importance of gratitude in inculcating goodness and happiness in people, Thanksgiving is arguably America’s most important day of the year.
On the other end of the religious spectrum, some among the ultra-Orthodox deem it un-Jewish to celebrate a non-Jewish holy day. But a religious Jew who refuses to celebrate Thanksgiving ought not tell anyone — it would most likely constitute a chilul hashem (a desecration of God’s name before others). Just imagine how it sounds — “We religious Jews refuse to celebrate a day thanking God for our blessings because non-Jewish Americans celebrate it.”
In 1789, George Washington issued the first national Thanksgiving proclamation with these words: “Now, therefore, I do recommend and assign Thursday, the 26th day of November next, to be devoted by the people of these States to the service of that great and glorious Being who is the beneficent author of all the good that was, that is, or that will be….”
What could possibly be un-Jewish about that?
I recall with pride that in my Orthodox parents’ home on Thanksgiving we ritually washed our hands before the Thanksgiving meal and sang the Birkat Hamazon — the grace after meals — afterward as if it were a yom tov meal.
Indeed, Thanksgiving is literally a yom tov, a good day. The best there is.
Dennis Prager is a nationally syndicated radio talk show host and columnist. His latest project is the online Prager University, which can be accessed at prageru.com
The Forward welcomes reader comments in order to promote thoughtful discussion on issues of importance to the Jewish community. In the interest of maintaining a civil forum, the Forward requires that all commenters be appropriately respectful toward our writers, other commenters and the subjects of the articles. Vigorous debate and reasoned critique are welcome; name-calling and personal invective are not. While we generally do not seek to edit or actively moderate comments, the Forward reserves the right to remove comments for any reason.
Copyright © 2013, Forward Association, Inc. All Rights Reserved.
Cleveland Kidnapping, Elizabeth Smart and Us
Tracing the Jewish Origins of the Holy Ghost
Ethical Kosher Seal Stalls Amid Orthodox Opposition
Baby Boomers’ Rocky Road to Jewish Love
'War' With Ultra-Orthodox at Kotel? Bring It On
You've successfully signed up!
"I recall with pride that in my Orthodox parents’ home on Thanksgiving we ritually washed our hands before the Thanksgiving meal and sang the Birkat Hamazon — the grace after meals — afterward as if it were a yom tov meal."
So are to assume that in your Orthodox household, you didn't wash your hands or bentsch the rest of the year?
Dennis Prager asks what could be un-Jewish about Thanksgiving. Well, here it is - there is absolutely no date in the Jewish tradition which is not given on the Hebrew calendar. Notice that in Israel new holidays were indeed born (Yom Ha-'Atzmaut, for example) - but they have only Hebrew dates. Jewish festivals all start at sundown. So, to declare that the fourth Thursday of November is Thanksgiving is very foreign to Jewish tradition. But, alas, perhaps it's the Jewish calendar that has become foreign to Mr Prager - hence "November" doesn't sound strange in a Jewish context.
In my long experience with American Jews, they celebrate Thanksgiving (and the Fourth of July). It is strange in my eyes, therefore, that Mr Prager suddenly felt the need to promote the importance of Thanksgiving and to try (very unsuccessfully) and find a Jewish justification for the celebration. Jews in America have an American identity. They celebrate Thanksgiving because of their American identity - and it's obvious. Maybe, one hundred years ago, the Forward would have wanted to promote the celebration of Thanksgiving, under the assumption that its readers are outsiders to the American culture. Today, most American Jews are outsiders to the Jewish culture. They don't need Mr Prager's encouragement to celebrate an American holiday, and they surely wouldn't be in need of a Jewish justification for it, either. The American Jewish public needs some help in expressing its own distinctiveness, Mr Prager - not in becoming American!
None of my tribe celebrates the European invasion. We fast that day and oray for peace. Still.
There he goes again -- blasting us "deeply secularized" Yidn who appreciate the "goodly" (and try to to do GOOD) without necessarily having to be "godly". Are we sure Praeger is not an Evangelist in Jewish clothing?
Is it not written that in a strange land, Jews should observe the customs of that land, so long as they do not violate Jewish law? If that is so, even the ultra-orthodox should celebrate Thanksgiving as it is a secular holiday, which includes food that can be fully kosher.
To our Cherokee Princess, the manner in which your people were treated will always be a stain on the fabric of this nation. Perhaps the initial meeting between Pilgrim and Native is what we should all reflect upon and cherish. That is the ideal Thanksgiving.
Why would a Jew want to honor their friends christmas celebrations? The new testament has 450 anti semitic scenes of the most vile and demonizing nature in a book that is only about 250 pages long. In addition, various themes of criticism and various methods of analysis show cleary that the new testament and it storyline is fiction and religious propaganda. The criticism reveals not only that the story of the birth complete fictional myth but one has to work very hard even to tease out any kind of life to this mythical fiction. Finally, what european christians did to the native peoples in north and south america, subjugating, killing, torturing, enslaving and missionizing was a complete horror show. Christians essentially sacrificed millions of native americans to their make believe "god".
TP: Being an evangelical Christian and being very familiar with the works of Mr. Prager, I can assure you that Mr. Prager is not an an evangelist. Bless your heart for your concern though.
JMK: The New Testament is not a "book". It is a collection of 27 writings consisting of the four narratives of the life and death of Jesus, called "gospels"; a narrative of the Apostles' ministries in the early church; twenty-one letters, commonly called "epistles" in biblical context, written by various authors and consisting mostly of Christian counsel and instruction; and an Apocalyptic prophecy. Additionally, I am sure your concern for the American natives is mirrored by your concern for the Amorites, Hittites, Perizzites, Canaanites, Hivites and the Jebusites that possessed the land of Canaan before the Israelites slaughtered them. Bless your heart for your concern. Mr. Prager has always been a stickler for clarity so I must; "Christians" did not "slaughter" to "sacrifice" to their "G_d". The United States government waged war to conquer land for expansion.
To Hineni: You write to DP "So are to assume that in your Orthodox household, you didn't wash your hands or bentsch the rest of the year?"
My response: If you believe in 'dan lekav zechut' you would simply assume that they wash individually and bentsch to themselves during the rest of the year, instead of washing together and making 1 Hamotzie and bentsching out loud.
To Yehuda: DP starts his article by writing "Thanksgiving has always been my favorite national holiday. In fact, although I am a religious Jew (or rather, because I am a religious Jew), it rivals my favorite Jewish holidays for my affection." He clearly considers it a 'national' holiday as that's what he calls it, and saying that it rivals his favorite Jewish holidays also clearly tells us that he doesn't consider it a Jewish holiday. Surely you can find something more deserving of your bile?
Qol - you miss the point of the article. First, as Thanksgiving is next week, he obviously is writing on a topic of interest; so this has nothing to do with telling Jews they should celebrate Thanksgiving. "They celebrate Thanksgiving because of their American identity - and it's obvious." Really? I don't think it is and there are many pockets that don't. It's that reason why this piece does still apply - may be it doesn't resonate to you because you already do, but for others, after reading this perhaps they will think otherwise. And that's what should be taken from the article.
Everyone else, I've got better things to do then read your back-and-forth banter to respond. It's an article folks; take it for what it's worth or don't - move on.
Halloween is better. Except for the lack of football.
I don't need a demarcated day to give thanks. Furthermore, a day whose existence can be directly linked to genocide puts a huge damper on the celebration.
"But even if one is opposed to thanking, or simply cannot thank, God, he should thank fate or luck or his ancestors for moving here, or the founders of this blessed country."
I dunno about this, either. The impending dangers of over-assimilation say otherwise. I think, instead, as Jews we should put a "Jewish spin" on Thanksgiving: for me, this means being aware of those less fortunate and unable to give thanks comparable to mine. Thanksgiving has tremendous potential for social awareness, which, as Jews, should be its main focus.
Aye...such narashkeit over Thanksgiving. Eat a drumstick, already! Have another piece of pumpkin pie. Lighten up mine lunatic brethren!
Shalom - Mr Prager has asked "what could be un-Jewish about Thanksgiving". Jews have always celebrated appointed seasons (mo'adim) in accordance to the Hebrew calendar. So, Jews will celebrate Thanksgiving - but let's not pretend that this is a Jewish event that has a place on the Jewish calendar.
You refer to Thanksgiving as a "national holiday". I imagine that you have a very un-Jewish definition of "nation". The Jews have always seen themselves as a nation, a people sharing a common descent (according to our tradition, we are one of the "70 nations" of the earth). All the Jewish festivals, therefore, are "national". Pesach, for example, is a festival marking the liberation of Israel (the Jews), one of these nations of the world - so it is a national holiday of the Jews. You apparently understand "national" to be "American" (and the Jews, in this view, are not a "nation" in their own right - just a religious community). Ironically, that would mean that one would have to define Jewishness in contradiction to its traditional ("religious") definition (for example: "goy qadosh", a holy nation; or "goy ehad ba-aretz", a unique nation on the earth).
I am perplexed at the antagonism towards Mr. Prager's article.
1. The occupants of the May Flower and the subsequently the Fortune lived in harmony with the Native Americans for roughly fifty years prior to any conflict. Therefore, it is unfair to ridicule those actually at the Thanksgiving feast shared with Native Americans as purveyors of genocide. In fact, their model of respect toward differing cultures should be celebrated.
2. The focus of Prager's article is that an attitude of gratitude is healthy one. The fact that we have a day set aside to do that as a nation is all the better. If one does like Prager recommends and reads Washington's Thanksgiving proclamation - I would also recommend Abraham Lincoln's Thanksgiving proclamation - one finds it hard to rectify the words of recognition of a sovereign God from these two presidents with the revisionist, secular history foisted on the masses today.
3. Even if one is an atheist, one can still be thankful that he/she lives in a country where the freedom to believe or not believe is allowed and not a means of persecution.
Dennis Prager is a good man and a good Jew.
While Thanksgiving is NOT an official Jewish holiday, it stands for what we promote and preach-----appreciation toward G-d, appreciation of each other, and an ingathering of family.
The nutjobs who are posting here and complaining, have their own goofy agenda, BUT Thanksgiving is a VERY WONDERFUL HOLIDAY, if you observe it as more than a day upcoming Department Store sales, football and parades.
Every day I thank G-d for his creations and blessings. Every day I do good deeds, to try to live in G-d's image. Every day, I try to act as a Jew should---as a representative of G-d on Earth, trying to live in G-d's image, and carry out G-d's blessings on mankind.
I see nothing wrong, or UNJEWISH, in having a day where we ALL should be focussed on giving thanks---especially in these days of "government entitlements," Obama, and secularism.
Dennis hits it on the head again. As always you may not agree with everything he says, but its truth, stright-forward and based on the values that if followed by the entire world, would put Denis out of business.
But similar to how we break the cup under the chuppah, lets take a moment as we cut the turkey, or rather you take a moment because here in the hills of the Shomron its not going to be turkey but rather hummus, take a moment and really think what you have to be thankful for.
As an Israeli, I admire your greedom, government, constitution and balance of power. But with President Obama skewing the Executive side, I'm thankful for the other 2 counterbalances.
I'm thankful that one can wear a kippa in many, but not all states, but I fear the increase in direct personal threats to Jews, particularly on campus.
I'm thankful that the US has an open education system with the ability to understand history, but I'm fearful that the same internet which can be used to educate, is used to smear hatred and anti-semitism not to mention racial and ethnic hatred.
I'm thankful that US forces are trying to fight Islamofacism in many parts of the worls, but I'm worried that they too will be dragged in fromt of International tribunes jest like we Israeli "war criminals" will because of lies, distortions, in-borne hatred by our enemies, and yes by quasi-Jews like Goldstone - isn't it sad that Goldstone and Goldstein sound alike, both being disasters for our people.
And I'm most of all thankful the many in the US are friends knowing that we share a common destiny in the optimistic bright future we want to leave to our children and grand children based on good old ethical monotheistic values.
God Bless America and enjoy the turkey
From our ancestral home in the tribe oof Menasseh
Robert Gasner
It is interesting that Dennis seems to think that secular Jews have a problem with Thanksgiving when it is the orthodox. consider the responses. I think that most of the western world appreciates the God from Israel not the God of Israel as Jewish understanding has evolved through the generations
To Denis Prager: You have become a brand, this article I could have written for you. The problem is you are not necessarily speaking to your audience. In this post Holocaust world that America fought for and created, Jews in America have many friends and have garnered the respect and sympathy from so many, that is true and since that is a truthful reality you seek without sacrificing you own identity commonality and an Orwellian ecumenism and mutual respect. This is one small reason why rabbinical Judaism is Judaism and has survived the diaspora and why Jews are accepted for their decency and reasonableness. I cannot argue with some of the results of a peaceful society except that the shared religious basis is myth because to be ecumenical requires the suspension of critical thought and analysis and Christianity and the anti semitic (450 anti semitic scenes) New Testament are completely fictional, the fictional New Testament is really the first source where one will encounter the mythical Jesus, yet you as a supposed orthodox Jew know all about him per your debate with Hitchens and D'Souza. No you do not, you have no evidence, to give credence to Christianity is to accept Christian religious propaganda as truthful history and that is betrayal to your people and rational critical thought covered in whole or in part in hundreds upon hundreds of volumes by accepted scholars from the finest colleges in the world. Maybe you should read one or two.
A reasonable and well thought out article from Dennis Prager, as usual. It is fallacious to call the New Testament "anti-semitic" when it has been written entirely by and for Jews. Many have tried to critically destroy these writings and have become Christians in the process. Keep it up JMK, you may be the next convert.
Enough already!! All we're really doing is giving credence to the old saw, "two Jews, three arguments."(or more)
you've been fisked on my blog Mr. Prager
innate-differences.blogspot.com
to be more precise, fisked you here:
http://innate-differences.blogspot.com/2009/11/acculturation-just-say-no-thanksgiving.html
JMK - I'm curious to know what anti-semitic scenes in the New Testament you are talking about. You stated that fact 2x with no examples, and I'm deeply curious since I am a devout Christian and pro-Israel supporter. If you could give me a list of like 5 of the most condemning scenes I would really appreciate it. Thanks!
Please go to the online New Testament and type in anything you could think of concerning Jews, pharisees, priests, chief priests, etc and hundered of vile demonic scenes will appear.
JMK - If you can't even give me 5 solid examples out of the 400+ you claim, then please don't even bother claiming them. You are spouting out lies and hatred about something you apparently don't even know about yourself.
It falls on my geboym-tog. I am grateful that through chessed to malchus, Melech has heard my ka raw. He has given me koach and brought me out of kelippas, to chai. Now Bas to Melech, of the Atzilus, I have passed the gate and intered the Ha Tzoor, I have seen the marvelous things David and other who climed Har Sinai seen, and who were given truth and chochmah through the koach of Melech.
This will be the best harvest.... Put sin out mikveh and enter in chai through the koach of Melech our G-D, he will open the gates of the garden to you. It will be a great Thanksgiving.
JMK my friend, what I see about you, is you do not want change, why????would you want to remanin as you are????? A chazer bleibt a chazer?????? Help me understand you, my friend, there is only ONE G-D why do you fight so? Your eyes only see Kelippos. Today is my geboym-tog and I will ka raw to Melech and ask for you the gift of chai in the Atzilus, through the koach you will find chochmah in your heart with truth, you seek. May you ka raw, your Melech and have a geboym-tog in the Atzilus.
JMK, means well....he has chessed but not all seven. But you who are thinking you are more knowing of G-D than JMK----have only seen Kelippos----which is the unholy side of this universe.
G-D does not mix-----first look at the names you call you days, your mo. you new year----then pick apart each and every holy day, you hold up to G-D. They all drip in pagan worship. May our Melech, anoint my friend JMK....G-D is dressed for battle my friends. Has He covered you head for battle????? His name rest upon me. I am Bas to Melech, my G-D. and you are?
Miriam Chartier, I do not understand one thing you said even to comment upon, for I may be better off. Heather: I am writing on breaks at work so I do not have the time to properly respond, but you do have the time since it is in your interest, to READ BOOKS, (not apologetics) like for example Constantine's Sword, or The Case of the Nazarene Reopened, etc, but just for the sake of it, the entire fictional scene of the fictional myth going to the fictional cross, and all the fictional nonsense concerning perfidious Jews in the fictional story. Explain the "It will be on our head and that of our children".
I share Prager's love and appreciation of Thanksgiving. Unfortunately, his revisionist history undermines would otherwise might have been a nice holiday tribute.
Jews do have every reason to embrace Thanksgiving precisely because it is a secular holiday (or has become one) and is not, therefore, a "religious" day whatever that is supposed to mean by Prager. If it WERE a religious day, then observant (and non-observant) Jews would have every reason to avoid it. The First National Proclamation of Thankgsiving in 1777 includes the following:
"That at one Time and with one Voice, the good People may express the grateful Feelings of their Hearts, and consecrate themselves to the Service of their Divine Benefactor; and that, together with their sincere Acknowledgments and Offerings, they may join the penitent Confession of their manifold Sins, whereby they had forfeited every Favor; and their humble and earnest Supplication that it may please GOD through the Merits of JESUS CHRIST, mercifully to forgive and blot them out of Remembrance;"
If Thanksgiving is a "religious" holiday, then THERE is your religion.
JMK - Jesus was not anti-semitic. He himself was a Jew. His teachings were not against Jewish people, but against the leaders who professed knowledge of the Jewish law while not really understanding the reason behind the law. The book that I read the most to understand the New Testament... is the New Testament AND the Old Testament. I just go straight to the source, and I've never read one anti-semitic thing in the Bible. That's why I'm asking for examples. I want to know what I'm missing. Can you even just come up with 2 really good ones? I mean... you said there's over 400... you can surely come up with a couple.
You did quote "All the people answered, "Let his blood be on us and on our children!" -Matthew 27:25
This is when Pilate asked the crowd if they were sure they wanted to crucify Jesus. Pilate said to the crowd "I am innocent of this man's blood, It is your responsibility!" and they replied that they would take full responsibility. Why is this anti-semitic?
Heather,
The passage from Matthew is considered anti-Semimtic for the simple reason that it has served as the basis for more then 1,500 years of Christian animosity toward Jews and the official condmenation of Jews by the Church. Now, you may say "Well, that's not the fault of Scripture but rather, humans applying it incorrectly" - and that's great, humane, progressive and all of that. The problem is it's also the sort of thinking can be used to explain away any passage from Scripture (and by any religion)when social conditions and cultural norms call for a new interpretation. The history of the thing speaks louder than recent attempts by Christians, within the last 50 years, to distance themselves from doctrines that were firmly held for the previous 1500 years.
But hey, I'm delighted that Christians love Jews and vice versa. But there is a history here that cannot be denied and should be ignored. Peace. And Happy Thanksgiving.
One quick correction. I meant "should NOT be ignored." Cheers.
I like Thanksgiving. That I have in common with Mr. Prager. And yes, there is something very Jewish about Thanksgiving. Was that the point of the article?
Why did he have to throw in the condescensions toward secular Jews? It seems to be a perpetual trope with him. I don't read Prager often because every time I do I run into this tic of his, and it always annoys me. No, not "annoys"--it offends me.
I note that Prager's second and third points seems to be the same point--that he's pleased, and thankful, that he can share the same holiday with Christians.
I'm getting the message that Mr. Prager feels a deeper bond with religious Christians than he does with "deeply secularized" or "ultra-secular" Jews.
I can only speak for myself. I am grateful for the United States of America. I am grateful that the country has, erratically, tended toward a more perfect union (though it still has a way to go). I am grateful that the United States has been there for the Jewish people (they could have done better in the '30s and '40s) and has been there for the State of Israel.
And I am grateful for the State of Israel. And I am grateful for all of the Jews who have been in my life, both secular and religious.
I am grateful for all of the Ashkenazim, Sephardim, Mizrahim, and converts in my life, for all of the Conservative Jews and Reform Jews and Reconstructionist Jews and Renewal Jews and secular Jews and Secular Humanist Jews and Orthodox Jews in my life.
I will celebrate Thanksgiving tomorrow. I will express my gratitude for all that I have been given. And among my most treasured gifts that I have been given are the Jews, secular, deeply secular, ultra-secular, and religious.
Gut yontif.
Heather: Your Jesus was not anti semitic because he did not ever exist, he was not a Jew because he did not ever exist. He did not have teachings because he did not ever exist. You are right the New Testament does not show any actual anti semitism because it is all fiction, make believe. Do you know that Nazareth never existed. Do you that Bethlehem was uninhabited after 550BCE. It is all myth. Do you know that Prager is another pragmatic, pathetic Jewish cowardly capitulating apologetist. That is the diaspora way, who gets onto cattle cars, who walks into awaiting pits, who walks into gas chambers but Jews. Who after losing everything and everybody tries making another life and not take revenge (some did god bless them). The diaspora Jew is to be a nice boy, a good boy, doesn't make waves, cause trouble, is non offending, gracious, thankful, everything your mother wanted (from a girl!). Prager give some evidence of this person you know all about. Silence, because truth and facts are not the point of course, it is the resulting peace and quiet and interfaith fiction that is the point. JESUS NEVER EXISTED!!!!! Thanksgiving is a day off, where Jews like everyone else because Jews are people like everyone else, can be together with family and if they can afford to indulge in a way most people cannot, period. TRUTH=JESUS NEVER EXISTED.
Jesus never existed,that is not true we have a painting of him in my church behind the pulpit.If there is a god i hope he has some mercy for all of us jew or gentile.I wish everyone a happy thanksgiving.
On 18 November, Yehuda commented: "...But, alas, perhaps it's the Jewish calendar that has become foreign to Mr Prager - hence "November" doesn't sound strange in a Jewish context."
Yehuda, do you know where the names of our "Hebrew" months come from? Do you call Nisan "Chodesh Ha-aviv" or "Nisan"? Alas, it seems we picked up the names of our months in an earlier galut from the culture that was around us at the time! We took it all in, apparently without regard its meaning. Have you ever checked where the name "Tammuz" came from? Have you ever realised that one of our precious, holy Hebrew month names is actually taken from the name of a Babylonian god? Perhaps "November" (ninth month) is actually more palatable if you think about it.
So, do please defend our purely Jewish calendar against all that outside non-Jewish influence. While we're at it, did you realise that streimels are also exclusively Jewish in origin? The kohen gadol wore one in the Beit haMikdash...
Prager's shtick is to assume the submissive position in respect to Christianity, in order to create a false peace Prager introjects the Stockholm Syndrome, Prager's job as he sees it, is to propitiate, to offer no offense, for an illusory peace with an anti semitic religion in textual theory and historical fact. Unfortunately he now believes it is true or is professionally beholden to the ideas he espouses. He lives in a fantasy world of Radio Oz. He simply accepts Christianity as a scared pathetic nearly exterminated minority. Prager has not read or studied the scholarship but continues to proceed to speak and publish pap. Prager does Jews and Gentile an extreme disservice to accept as historical what is transparently fiction and forgery. JESUS NEVER EXISTED AT ANY TIME AND IN ANY PLACE.
This South African Jew is ashamed of you ungrateful Americans and American Jews. What I wouldn't give to live in your terrific country. Not only has it been the best country ever for non-Jews, but it is the best country for Jews! Where else do you find the religious freedoms like you have, where else do you find the liberty you have, where else do you find success that you people have experienced. I live in a country where crime has effected almost everyone I know, I live in a country where there is over 40% unemployment rate, I live in a country where over 50% of the Jewish community alone have immigrated all over the world. Why do people leave South Africa, and why do people from all over the world yearn to come to your country?! The best thing you ungrateful Americans should do is travel and see how lucky you really have it. America is the closest thing to utopia there is and the sooner you stop comparing America to utopia the sooner you will be unbelievably grateful and happier.
Gavin: You had a country but decided to destroy it by giving up on what it was that made it great and white, on giving it back to the primitves and by giving up on your childrens future, thank you Mrs. Sussman, because as you have already figured out the world is divided for the most part by the most atavistic tendencies of race and tribe. South African whites gave up on their race and tribe and now have to live like scared animals in cages. American still has a chance because we still have a Bill of Rights that protects our freedom of speech and to think, unlike you who were to weak and stupid to see that to give up was to destroy your very lives and all that you built. Bug off.
Dear JMK, Speaking as an American Jew living in South Africa, I am deeply offended by your remarks. South Africa was not truly a great place under apartheid. It kept most of the population under its heel without anything like the American Bill of Rights. Freedom of speech was not protected until the new constitution that South Africa has now. I am a proud American who is deeply proud of the US constitution and US institutions (My British friends may now roll their eyes). However, South Africa's constitution speaks of rights that Americans do not actually have, such as a right to basic health care. Unlike in the US, my wife does not have to worry about how her poor patients will pay for their drugs and for their care. Poor people here generally have better access to health care here than poor people in the USA, even with all the problems the public health care system has here. Many poor people have more rights than they did before 1994. How dare you invoke the name of Helen Suzman in the same paragraph as saying "giving it back to the primitives"? She would turn over in her grave. Please crawl back under the racist rock you came from.
Yakov: a South African just told the other day that there is no future there for a white person. While American institutions are the most advanced, America is deeply in debt, run by Wall Street and lobbyists for major business interest, in many ways a third world country for some and on the horizon for most and 100% bankrolled by China, South African Whites simply made a very bad decision to give up the fight and LOST it all. When it comes down to it, nothing not merit, class, education, religion, philosphy, party etc, matters unfortunately only RACE. 99% of American blacks voted for someone who besides not constitutionally qualifying for office, is beholden to the Wall Street owned feudal system in place. So SA has socialized medicine, so does every retired American, but what does that means to every other white person who has had to flee. No equality, fear and discrimination. In America, blacks use the term which I thought was offensive, nigger or my nigger in every sentence, on a bus or subway trip I could hear that word or expression literally hundreds of times but should I use the term, even think the term that is off limits, its use could lead to fights and arrest, well I do not care and now the term finishes every sentence to my family and white friends, so as I tell my children I love you, my nigger.
YMK: I disagree with your South African friend. I also disagree with you. South Africa is and always was a white minority country. Before 1994, blacks were restricted in where they were permitted to go, where they were permitted to live, what they could study in school and in many other things. These restrictions were only because of their skin color and put blacks down in their own country. Now, at least the country is free. We didn't LOSE it all, we GAINED a country built on some of the same ideals that built the US. That does not educate people differently based upon race. That does not restrict people from living in or visiting certain parts of the city based upon race. That does not assassinate the people who disagree with its policies.
I understand that many white South Africans have left. Those will be the ones that you meet outside South Africa. However, most white South Africans are still here, and now, at least, there is a decently free country that is more just than it used to be. And, it does not all come down to race. If you're not a racist, sometimes it comes down to being human. From what you say, I'm not sure that you can understand that.
Yakov: The South African who spoke to me was just visiting. Again, the world unfortunately comes down to the most primitive differences RACE or TRIBE. The human animal demands domination and capitulation. Almost everyone in China are Han but they are not really enthically Han, Everyone in Europe worshipped many thousands of Gods but how comes really only one fiction survives to dominate. Everyone in Latin America are Hispanic but they just speak spanish or portuguese they are mostly native Indian (asian) or a mix who had culture and religions. Blacks in SA were numerically superior to whites, so in a full democracy they rule, but what of whites, who now are restricted, who's protecting their rights, nobody. Which is what makes Dennis Prager so disgusting and immoral in his perverse ecumenism, it it self censorship, self denial, it belies the tremendous scholarship that Christianity is fiction. The result of capitulation unity and relative peace is no excuse for fallacious intellectual machination and perversion of truth proven by true scholarship and not the apologetic that Dennis Prager promotes.
JMK writes: "what of whites, who now are restricted, who's protecting their rights, nobody."
Here in South Africa, there is a constitution and there are laws. I cannot be detained by the police without being charged. This is a change from before 1994, when South Africa ran under "emergency" laws that allowed people to be detained without charge. If I remember correctly, for 32 days. Often without notifying the family of the detainee. That is no longer true. As for protecting my rights in proactice. I notice the police officers driving around my largely white neighborhood. These police officers are not white. The police officers guarding the polling station where my wife voted in April were not white. The armed man who responds from ADT when the alarm goes off in our apartment: he's not white, either. The security guards at my work are almost all non-white. So, I feel pretty well protected, mostly by non-whites. And, almost none of those people who keep me safe have the salary that I have and that my wife has. Almost none of them can afford to live where we live now or where we have just bought a house. And I sense no resentment from them about this.
So, you're wrong here about whose rights are protected, and it is better than before, when, if I said the wrong thing, the police could come and arrest and detain me. When newspapers were censored. When parliament legislated that a man must stay in prison beyond the end of his sentence. (Google Robert Sobukwe if you don't believe me.)
So, no, I don't believe that we now must hold hands and sing kumbaya into the sunset and all will be fine. I just believe that the current state is closer to how it should be.
Shabbat Shalom.
I am exhausted after reading all of these one sided oppinions about Jews and Thanksgiving. How we misperceive each other, and how we can miscontrue each others motives and beliefs. In anycase, be well, and enjoy the season. PIM
Since Prager is already writing an article about his love for Christmas, since he knows and loves the man made MYTH Jesus and the wonderful world of Babi Yars and Gas Chambers that has been brought in his make believe name, I am awarding him both the Patty Hearst (Stockholm Syndrome) Award for psychological deformity and intellectual obtuseness and also the Tevye (Ostrich)Award for being so totally ignorant of the fictional nature of the superstition named Christianity and the fabricated forgery that is the New Testament. Mr Prager will be receiving for his award, a model of a cattle car Christians used to ship Jews to Auschwitz and Aaron Appelfeld's novel Badenheim 1939 for being such an obtuse coward and a ticket on the St. Louis.
Sorry, the most recent post of 30 November by JMK is so nasty and so disrespectful of others who do not hold JMK's view of the world that it is beneath me to respond directly.
Forgive for my yiddish is poor and I should of know better than to try it....I am old and many times, my life was not good. I was told I was born on thankgiving day. I give thanks, every day I am given. Life seemed for me not fair...when I was young and so on, and so on... What is fair? I grew and found the marvelous things G-D pland for us long ago. I found, there are three levels bound together, the Holy One, the word of G-D spoken in the hidden part were truth makes you know wisdom and the work of G-D'S hands---all of mankind. I am grateful. For it is written...Job 33 The Spirit of G-D made me(flesh, below, death) but the breath of the Almighty gives me life. ( above, a child is given up Isaiah 9, a son of G-D is brought forth. everlasting life is given.)
A son of G-D ---is a Man---brought forth from his native land, into the kingdom of G-D and our of his fathers house-hold into the house-hold of G-D as a son of the Living G-D. Now made in the mirror image Man (male and female was he created at first)
The second birth, is better than the first, and it was not on thankgiving, but I am grateful.